this post was submitted on 16 Nov 2024
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[–] jaschen@lemm.ee 9 points 4 hours ago

Traditions = Generational Trauma

[–] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 39 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Ever see the movie "Moon"?

[–] deltapi@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Is that the one starring Sam Rockwell? Duncan Jones' first outing?

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[–] Zozano@lemy.lol 77 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Tradition is always the worst reason to do something.

If you had any other reason to do something, you would use that as an excuse.

[–] Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 3 hours ago

I wouldn't go that far. Some traditions can be a positive that help give people a sense of shared community: christmas trees, presents and gluhwein for christmas, turkey for thanksgiving, etc

[–] kopasz7@lemmy.world 33 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I can come up with worse reasons than tradition.

Like, to satisfy a sadistic urge or to cause suffering.

Traditions can and often do serve some purpose even if we don't see them in such a light.

Just as evolutionary traits, only beneficial ones tend to survive the test of time. (Not necessarily beneficial to the individual, but the group)

[–] voldage@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You've disconnected reason from the action and outcome. Killing someone will have bad outcome regardless of reason, but if your reason for the murder was some sort of tradition, it would imply that it's justified in your eyes and you'd do it again, and also teach your children and community to do it, and normalise it, fight against legislation that would stop it etc. I believe it would be difficult, though probably not impossible, to formulate a reason worse than tradition without referencing tradition or custom in some way. And then there is also the frequency of how often traditions are used as reason or excuse to achieve a cruel outcome to consider. If baby pandas were no. 1 reason for human death in the world by few orders of magnitude, we would probably consider them "the worst" in some way.

[–] kopasz7@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (7 children)

What tradition are you talking about?

For example funeral rites help prevent disease from corpses. Without knowing anything about germs.

Or the taboo of incest can avoid genetic defects, without knowing anything about genes.

Traditions formed for a reason. And that reason is way more ancient and more natural than modern logic. It is simply survival.

The people with traditions that helped them survived more often.

[–] voldage@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (13 children)

Well seal clubbing is pretty bad for one. But the point isn't whenever there are bad traditions, but whenever tradition is a good or bad reason to do something. Rites themselves do nothing, burying or burning the body does. Understanding why you're doing something is vastly better than doing it because of some (possibly reasonable but unknown) ancient reason no one is able to point out. Taboo of incest is less related to traditions, and more to biology which causes people not to be attracted to their siblings in most cases. There is no ceremony or ritual to prohibition of incest, so I'd say it's not a tradition. The tradition that have existed, however, was inbreeding of royal families, that wanted to keep their blood pure, which led to copious amount of incest and genetic defects. Many traditions rose from the dominance of one group over another and existed to legitimize this dominance further. Tradition of women being unable to vote, earn money or chose their spouse was born from the many generations of oppression. Tradition of black people being segregated away from white in USA was born out of dehumanization of slaves. There are many cases of traditional honor suicides (like seppuku) or honor killing (like stoning of women accused of adultery) in different traditions as well.

I could keep listing "bad traditions with bad reasons" but that's not the point I've originally made, more of a reply to your point about traditions being born out of useful or natural/survival reasons, which I believe those examples should disprove. The point is still that doing something solely because of tradition is bad, you need knowledge to do that well and in current age there is absolutely no reason not to seek that knowledge. In the past, when people were illiterate an easily digestible oral tradition was useful thing, but we're way past times when we have no good way to ensure the complicated reasons for doing things are preserved. What if some tradition results in oppression of some people and it's source is unknown or so ancient it's no longer applicable, should it be upkept? Conversely, should the ritual blood sacrifice be kept in the celebration of plentiful harvest to appease the gods, or should you only keep the parts like dancing around the bonfire and socializing, because those things are fun and healthy for the community?

If there is wisdom hidden in the tradition, then you want to figure it out, but if it's kept cryptic, unknown and attempts to research it are met with disdain because someone tries to compromise your tradition, then it's probably better to fuck around and find out what would happen if you didn't perform the tradition. And if something bad happens, then at least you can write it down and pass to the next generation as the actual reason for doing things. I seriously doubt there is anything left in human traditions that was figured out in the past, and is currently impossible to decipher or comprehend just by analysis, without even doing empirical tests. And if for some reason something isn't, then do those tests and find out. If you're worried about some arcane knowledge of the ancients that is too enigmatic for us to understand just by looking, you can try doing something differently in isolated environment, with various precautions and on limited sample. No reason to keep it as "tradition" instead of "reason", especially since the underlying reason could have been good, but due to no one knowing what it was, the method could have degenerated over the generations to the point of being ineffective.

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[–] Zozano@lemy.lol 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

Satisfying a sadistic urge will generally have a bad outcome (unless your target is a masochist), but as a reason, it is actually better than tradition.

If murdering people and rearranging their body parts was just "tradition", it would be infinitely worse than someone doing it out of self satisfaction.

Traditions do often serve purpose, take for instance the birthday song. We say we do it for "tradition", but the real reason is because it's a familiar song everyone can participate in singing, to direct cheer at the birthday-twat. It's generally fun.

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[–] cm0002@lemmy.world 68 points 1 day ago (2 children)

690 years in case anyone was wondering lol

[–] Uli@sopuli.xyz 26 points 1 day ago

690 years since the XT line began. If they started at AA-00, we're looking at 1,851,690 years.

[–] JoShmoe@ani.social 16 points 1 day ago

Nice! I wouldn’t have noticed that.

[–] SARGE@startrek.website 86 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Bro, just let XT-24 have a break.

Just give him a tramp stamp. Maybe a butterfly.

[–] brsrklf@jlai.lu 54 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (7 children)

My question would be : are XT clones conditioned exactly the same? Because if so, XT-23 is lying. They do enjoy doing this shit and they've all been jerks since XT-1.

[–] DogWater@lemmy.world 3 points 17 hours ago

Depends on how souls actually work at a quantum level, some people, like NDGT, believe they don't exist.

but if they do then there could be replicant drift from one generation to the next.

Hell honestly, you might not need something as profound as a soul to observe a replicant drift over time throughout a lineage. No matter how identical they are, 2 clones will have different life experiences ranging from things as minor as seeing events from 2 physically different locations in time or space up to something as major as experiencing important life events differently. I don't believe it's possible to stay the exact same when there's so many differences in one life lived to another.

I bet xt prime wouldn't even recognize himself in xt 24.

[–] Godric@lemmy.world 2 points 20 hours ago

Who cares if they're exactly the same out of the vat, their experiences after emerging won't be, and they'll mature into different individuals.

[–] SARGE@startrek.website 38 points 1 day ago

It was actually XT-15 that started drawing on the next clone, he had a bit of a rebellious phase in the vat he never quite grew out of.

He just told 16 that it was tradition and his just faded over time. It's not like the guy fresh out of the jar knows tattoos are permanent... Yet.

[–] AnyOldName3@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago

Maybe XT-1 woke up with tattoos like this, but it said Dave the lab tech was here, and Dave was the only one to enjoy it.

[–] derfunkatron@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

We have to ask why a tattoo machine, ink, needles, and operating instructions were even put on the ship to begin with. My guess is that the progenitor of the clones is the biggest dick of all.

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 10 points 1 day ago

Or a divergent xt started doing this shit and it seems like a tradition

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[–] DarkCloud@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Just switch it to positive messages; you are loved, you are someone... A series of hearts. A nice pattern.

[–] Iheartcheese@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago

I <3 cock is a positive message.

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[–] sxan@midwest.social 31 points 1 day ago (3 children)

This is fantastic. Was not expecting the punchline.

Young me would have missed the personal interaction. Older, less hormonally-motivated me would be fine if the accommodations were nice, reasonably large, and contained a good, Linux-based, powerful computer, a copy of the entire Library of Congress archives, and deep clones of Github and Sourcehut. A decent, fast, current generation AI setup would go a long way to filling any gaps. I think I could probably live for several decades - maybe centuries - left to my own devices. Until the literature and media ran out.

I'd like to be able to work with AI systems to generate movies from my favorite sci-fi books. Just, throw literature at it, give it some direction, tweak the output, have a ton of dedicated processing power and a lot of free time, and no copyrights to worry about.

[–] indepndnt@lemmy.world 24 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Until the literature and media ran out.

Man, I easily completely forget shit from 10 or 20 years ago, I bet if you just keep creating you could entertain yourself for a lot longer!

[–] tetris11@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Give me all the Toy Story Films, plus a 2 week amnesiac pill every 2 weeks. I'll be fine

I would love you and others to find and watch this classic episode of the Twilight Zone: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Enough_at_Last My guts tell me there'd always be something missing like that.

I had thoughts of landing in a solitary confinement. Having media, tools, manuals and even internet at hand would make it pretty bearable, but I'd still probe the question of waking up another clone to have a company. Being there with their asses in a cryogenic sleep for decades would make me think about it thousands of times and it'd be really hard not to question the guidelines and test this opportunity.

[–] MajorHavoc@programming.dev 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

For my trip I'll take this fine list above, plus a copy of all of the legal ethically made pornography.

Ten lines of text would cover all your AI-generated porn needs

[–] deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz 22 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They all mean "courage" in some archaic language.

Or "Small charcoal grill."

[–] lucia@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago

Classic XT-22

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