I've shared your post with fellow moderators thank you!🤗
this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2024
19 points (78.8% liked)
Support (lemm.ee)
824 readers
1 users here now
lemm.ee Support
You can make a post here if you're looking for support with any issues!
For general discussion about lemm.ee, please post in !meta instead.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Hey guys,
I've reviewed the situation and don't believe Universal Monk has earned a instance ban from lemm.ee. Auk, if he continues to post in communities he's been banned from from his lemm.ee account , please let me know.
I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread, thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Is having the same username on other instances a ban evasion though?
I was under the impression that a ban evasion would be being banned on an instance, creating an alt name on that instance, then continuing to post on that instance.
I thought the whole fediverse model was based on the fact that if your voice is sileneced on one instance, you could go to another instance. As long as it's not for spamming or trolling.
This is a serious question, not being facetious. I have not been banned on lemm.ee or slrpnk, nor have I posted in !pleasantpolitics@slrpnk.net after being banned there--in fact i didn't know I was banned there until just now.
I'm not sure what you're meaning. I'm not sealioning, I genuinely don't understand what you are so upset about.
Here are my post logs from both accounts:
https://slrpnk.net/u/UniversalMonk?page=1&sort=New&view=Posts
Being the same person who was banned, and posting from a new account, is ban evasion.
You can find a place that can put up with you, if you want to try. That's the sense in which your voice won't be silenced. The same people who've seen what you have to say and want no part of it are not obligated to continue listening to it forever, with you disabling their attempts not to hear from you anymore. That's protecting their rights to use Lemmy as they want to use it.
He will drown everyone in a never ending back and forth about minutiae of the rules while never addressing the obvious and larger issues or his own behavior head on.
Don’t let him troll you. Communities are better when they don’t focus on trolls. Getting rid of the trolls is an upkeep responsibility like weeding a garden; don’t let them shame you or demand justification for it.
Fully agree. I'm finishing up a few replies to other people who had things to say about it, and then I plan to wash my hands of it.
But I haven't posted to any communites on this instance that I've been banned from.
Dude, you literally just banned me from your community today and I haven't posted into pleasant politics since then. Under this name or any other name.
I don't even know why you are so upset! What did I post in pleasant politics that you are so upset about?
In fact, me using the same username shows that I'm being transparent and not trying to evade bans.
If I wanted to evade bans, wouldn't I just use a different username in order to hide the fact? I'm not evading anything, nor do I plan to.
The bot banned you from !pleasantpolitics@slrpnk.net I don't know how long ago. You had a lower rank, after a while, than even Media Bias Fact Check bot. Somehow. That's your violation of the letter of the law.
I can't even find the entry in the modlog because your record of moderation actions is so extensive that it's almost impossible to make sense of. I seriously tried, and since your account ban and the endless list of deletions and bans people have been giving you, I couldn't find it. It's hard to find stuff for now-deleted accounts, I guess. It's there though. You were banned quite a while ago from !pleasantpolitics@slrpnk.net under the now-deleted account. I can find a date or a moderation record if you want to see it. Anyway, you put yourself in a position to be able to DM people again after being banned for some kind of offense in DMs, and started posting in new politics communities with the exact same stuff after being banned for a pattern of behavior that I would say the mods were excessively generous about, to the point of moderation malpractice. That's your violation of the spirit of the law.
You did ban evasion both in letter and in spirit. And, you're pretending with an innocent face not to understand how anyone could have a negative reaction to you, when you're clearly aiming for exactly that negative reaction with a lot of your past posts. That's the proactive element that would lead me, if I were an admin, to ban you on sight.
You need to reevaluate your approach to posting, or else get accustomed to people wanting to ban you. It's the world's most natural reaction to what you like doing.
Thank you for the clarification. So are you saying that I posted to pleasant politics under my .world account? Because I only started this slprnk account recently and I have only posted to your forum once.
And your "bot" banned me and you don't have a record of when? And your bot doesn't notify people that they are banned, so how would I know?
The negative reaction you are referring to is because I would post news articles saying that Trump was gaining on Harris. But they were political articles from news sources. And after the election results, the articles I was posting ended up being accurate. And I advocated third parties. Which now many many people on .world are doing.
My time here on slrpnk has been apolitical and I haven't really posted anything political. And I haven't posted to any other instances from my slrpnk account.
My slrpnk account is for my fitness, my anarchy and solar interests. Here is my post history from here: https://slrpnk.net/u/UniversalMonk?page=1&sort=New&view=Posts
I had no idea I was banned from your community. I am fine not posting there. Seriously I had no communication that I was banned from your community until today. I thinks it a great idea for a community, but I am totally fine not posting there.
I just didn't understand why you were so upset. I have no desire for drama. And I'm happy to just stick to my little fitness community.
Your ban is in the modlog. It's about halfway down, search for "pleasant".
I'm mostly relying on common sense here. Your participation in previous politics communities was incredibly obnoxious. The issue was never that you were talking about third parties and posting news articles. I don't even know all the details of why you were banned. I think some of it was for DM harrassment or posting fan fiction about other people on Lemmy. Now that you've been banned, you've made new accounts and went looking for new politics communities to start doing the same thing in, while seeking for exact clarifications about the rules that would let you carefully adhere to the letter of them so you could keep doing it, while the overwhelming majority of the community keeps asking you not to.
I'm not trying to be mean about it, and I'm not upset or anything. If you're interested in changing how you contribute so that you're a net positive to the community, let's talk. If you're planning to continue your current type of contributions, but trying to engineer ways around the rules with multiple accounts or whatever so that you can keep doing it, then the answer is no thank you.
I think some of it was for DM harrassment or posting fan fiction about other people on Lemmy.
Again, assumption. And no, none of that ever happened. Think about it, if that happened and I am so hated, wouldn't there be ample evidence and screen shots about that? People on that instance hated me with a passion! And I gave you links to the mod log of that community.
And the "fan fiction" wasn't fan fiction at all. I don't even know where that term came from. lol
I created a community of creepy pulpy horror tales that tie into Lemmy. I have no idea why anyone would say it was fan fiction or anything of the sort.
It was me writing fun pulpy horror tales. NONE of it was about anyone specific on Lemmy. I parodied the ATTITUDES of Lemmy. Here's the link to the community: https://sh.itjust.works/c/talesfromthecrypticlemmy
Your participation in previous politics communities was incredibly obnoxious.
Which has nothing to do with your community or this instance. People can easily block my name and never see or hear me ever again.
I’m not trying to be mean about it, and I’m not upset or anything.
Good to know, maybe I missed the tone in your text. I def took it as you were trying to ban me from this instance, lemm.ee, and sh.itjust.works because of what you thought of my previous behavior on an instance that I was banned from weeks ago. Since you are writing to all of the admins there.
If you’re interested in changing how you contribute so that you’re a net positive to the community, let’s talk.
I have already started a community on here. And I may switch my Tales from the Crytpic Lemmy to here as well. Especially after this conversation. And since I am finishing up a horror tale involving a solar power relay.
But again, I won't be posting to your community, mainly because of all this drama that happened.
I wish no ill will towards you. I think you have a great community idea. After this experience, I can not say I support your robotic mod though. I doubt I will be the first confused person to run afoul of it.
But I do wish you the best of luck with it.
I think some of it was for DM harrassment or posting fan fiction about other people on Lemmy.
Again, assumption. And no, none of that ever happened.
Modlog, search for "harassing."
Good to know, maybe I missed the tone in your text. I def took it as you were trying to ban me from this instance, lemm.ee, and sh.itjust.works because of what you thought of my previous behavior on an instance that I was banned from weeks ago. Since you are writing to all of the admins there.
That is exactly what I was trying to do, yes. Not for your behavior on the previous instances exactly, but for starting up the same behavior from new accounts since you'd already been banned for it, which is against the rules. I think I explained the commonsense reasons also.
Modlog, search for “harassing.”
And no examples. I still have no clue what they determined to be harassing. I got many nasty dm's and would reply in kind, but I don't see how that is harassing. Plus I'm quite aware that DM's aren't private. But again, their instance and their rules.
Not for your behavior on the previous instances exactly, but for starting up the same behavior from new accounts since you’d already been banned for it, which is against the rules.
Which we have already discussed wasn't done on this instance, in your community or any other instance. It's again, your assumption.
Really, let's just end it here. You obviously think I'm a troll. I disagree. That's ok. Let's agree to disagree.
I won't be posting to your community, now I know how your bot works, and we can just move on. Thank you.
Ok, guys, now I get what happened. Even tho you all think I'm trolling, it's really because I'm an idiot.
So I THINK I have worked it out. Someone DM'd me the theory.
So auk's robot banned me from his community before I ever posted there under my slrpnk account, based on a downvote count that I had on another instance.
So since I never knew I was banned in his community (because the bot doesn't notify), I mistakenly posted there, and auk recognized the user name, thought I was ban evading.
So now I get it. But, auk, your bot doesn't notify people they were banned.
If people don't know they're banned (especially if they've never posted there), and then post there, I don't think it's fair to represent that as ban evasion.
But at least now I understand. I'm happy not to post there. It's all good.
Guys, I'm not a troll just because I'm still learning all the Lemmy stuff.
You are a troll and we’ve endured weeks of your bad faith reply barrages and even seen you bragging about downvotes. I don’t see any excuse for you that holds water.
It was real fun for you up until everyone quit asking you to stop and simply removed you, huh?
It may stun you to realize this, but you worked hard and earned this reputation and now you own it. It’s yours. It’s no one’s fault but your own. You had ample time and chance to contribute in earnest.
You are a troll and we’ve endured weeks of your bad faith reply barrages and even seen you bragging about downvotes.
I have only been on this slpnk instance for two days. And you can easily not "endure" me by blocking my name. So I'm not sure why you are so upset. Lemmy has plenty of tools to block voices you don't want to hear from.
Actually the "bragging" about my downvotes, was because it was trying to be weaponized against me. So I owned it and stood by my comments. And by the way, I still stand by my comments on that other instance.
I was downvoted on .world because of my opinions that Trump was gaining on Harris in the polls and posting articles saying that, plus my love for third parties. And as the election showed, what I posted was shown to be accurate.
Also, I did not vote for Trump--I voted for a Socialist third party, even tho that shouldn't matter when it comes to people downvoting me. But it does.
The most important part of all this is that all of that drama was on a different instance.
This instance isn't about that. The downvotes that this person's community bot banned me for WERE NOT based on me here on this instance.
I'm apolitical on this instance and I mostly post/comment about fitness, solar power, and cool anarchy stuff. And I have never hidden my username here or tried to hide who I was. I have never posted to any other instance with my slrpnk name.
The election is over. I don't think politics needs to come into every single discussion on this instance. And I have no desire to post again in that person's community.
The beauty of the fediverse is that it's decentralized. And no one voice or one point of view can be overpowering.
Plus this situation has been resolved here, so we can move on.
And you can easily not “endure” me by blocking my name.
Part of the point of the violation here is that, if someone's already blocked your name, they now have to do it again for three new accounts, until you make more beyond those three.
I already think that trolling and saying that anyone who doesn't like it should just block you is unreasonable. Trolling and saying that anyone who doesn't like it needs to block every new account you make to keep trolling with when one gets banned is a whole different level.
Part of the point of the violation here is that, if someone’s already blocked your name, they now have to do it again for three new accounts, until you make more beyond those three.
Which takes two seconds. I know because I've blocked several people. It's not that difficult and I think site-wide banning because of opinions you don't like is bad form. Avoiding that is the entire point of the fediverse.
But like I said, you and I have resolved our issues. We can move on.
As I said under the other post, I do believe this evasion was entirely unintentional, for the reasons you outlined. The part that was intentional was trolling in lemmy.world politics and some other communities until your whole user got banned, and then making new accounts and going looking for other politics communities to start up exactly the same antics in, explicitly affirming your plan to continue the same pattern of behavior. And, in the course of doing that, you managed to break some rules, set up to protect against that kind of behavior.
I'm not planning to set the bot up to notify dozens of users about their bans in a community they have never posted in and don't care about. Mostly it doesn't come up, because you have to be pretty obnoxious for the bot to ban you. Almost no one even close to that boundary even posts there, because almost everyone understands how to interact with other users without collecting hundreds or thousands of downvotes.
I get that you didn't get a notification, and so probably didn't know you were banned. You did know you were being obnoxious previously, and refused to stop doing it until it escalated to an account ban, and then made some new accounts and started looking for new places to do it.
I think admins and mods those new places can make the decision about whether that is ban evasion, or whether they want to let you do this all again until you inevitably get banned again sometime later. People have talked with you about why what you're doing is a problem. Why they would pick that second option is something of a mystery to me, but I'll leave it up to them. I'm just relaying the information.
It would be a different story if you were just misunderstanding something, and completely open to a conversation about why you keep getting banned and what you can do differently, but you're clearly more interested in figuring out the details of the rules so you can find ways around them and keep doing your same thing.
I'm not planning to set the bot up to notify dozens of users about their bans in a community they have never posted in and don't care about.
lol so your dumb bot bans randos, doesn't tell them, and you're too lazy to fix it and this guy is somehow avoiding bans he never even knew happened. this is straight ridiculous stop wasting people's times with this crap
Sending out ban notifications to dozens of users about bans in a community they've never heard of doesn't seem like good bot design.
I am unsurprised that a UniversalMonk fan would think that would be a totally reasonable thing to do, though, and at the same time that banning someone who managed to get an account ban from the least ban-happy instance there is when they make a new account and start doing the same stuff is somehow unreasonable.
Dude, if your bot is issuing bans, it absolutely, 100% needs to be notifying people it bans.
Fuck universal, that's not the issue. A bot that's automatically banning people is bullshit to begin with, if that's what it does and I'm not entirely sure that's the case but if it's banning, and doesn't include a notification function, that's beyond bad.
There is no such thing as ban notifications on Lemmy, but the bot's bans are public in the mod log like any other community moderator bans. This seems like a reasonable design as notification spam by a bot is significantly worse than not knowing about being banned from a community you are not using anyways (and if you have been using it, then the ban is easily noticeable and doesn't need a notification either).
yeah, lemmy doesn't have ban notifications (afaik anyway).
But there's a bot out there banning people from the outside. If that's going to be a part of lemmy, then it damn well needs a higher standard
Just curious, and not to beat a dead horse, but if Lemmy can give us notifications that comments are removed, why can't it do a simple ban notification as well?
Because I always get notified when a post or comment has been removed.
Seems simple enough make the removal notification that led to banning something as simple as "Your comment has been removed for xxxx reason. And now you are banned from the community due to reasons xxxxx."
I realize that my particular situation here has been resolved and we can move on, but I'm just curious if the lack of banning notifications is a software issue or if it's a philosophical issue for Lemmy and the fediverse.
Fuck universal, that’s not the issue.
Hey now! lol
But yeah, to your point, I agree that any bots that ban, also need to notify. Especially since it's a bot, and it's automated, so it's not like it would be much harder to do than the auto-banning. And I don't routinely check modlogs before I post to a community.
This particular bot--if I understand correctly--auto bans based on someone's downvotes, not necessarily on content. Even if those downvotes happened on another instance. Which to me, seems even worse, because some people can be right, even tho downvoted.
The issue started because I had no idea I was banned, and I accidentally posted to the community.
Apparently, it banned my same username from another instance that I was on. My time on that instance was pre-election, so in the weeks leading to it, Lemmy was quite um, passionate about downvoting anyone who wasn't openly supporting Harris.
But I haven't been controversial or posted any controversial content from this slrpnk instance. And I do not have the same downvote ratio on this instance because I stay away from politics here--except for the post to his community. Which was about Bernie Sanders--who I adore.
But the username thing may be an issue in the future too, because some people's usernames are generic enough that that as we grow bigger, duplicates may be used unintentionally on different instances.
So banning based on downvotes of a user name on different instances, without reading content, seems problematic to me.
I have no problem with him running it in his community tho. His community, his rules, but the noise started because I had no idea what was going on until he posted this here.
But I definitely got the point, and won't be posting to his community in the future.
I hope that there won't be many communities doing the same sort of bot modding though.