this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2024

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UniversalMonk ban evasion (self.support)

submitted 5 days ago by auk to c/support@lemm.ee

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UniversalMonk has been evading the a ban on him by posting from new accounts on !pleasantpolitics@slrpnk.net. That's ban evasion, which on most instances leads to an account-level ban, as far as I know. The relevant account is UniversalMonk@lemm.ee.

I'm not sure how to notify admins on lemm.ee, so I'm posting here. If ban evasion justifies an account ban on lemm.ee, then it's time. If there's a better place to send this note, let me know, and I'll do that instead.

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[–] auk 2 points 5 days ago (2 children)

As I said under the other post, I do believe this evasion was entirely unintentional, for the reasons you outlined. The part that was intentional was trolling in lemmy.world politics and some other communities until your whole user got banned, and then making new accounts and going looking for other politics communities to start up exactly the same antics in, explicitly affirming your plan to continue the same pattern of behavior. And, in the course of doing that, you managed to break some rules, set up to protect against that kind of behavior.

I'm not planning to set the bot up to notify dozens of users about their bans in a community they have never posted in and don't care about. Mostly it doesn't come up, because you have to be pretty obnoxious for the bot to ban you. Almost no one even close to that boundary even posts there, because almost everyone understands how to interact with other users without collecting hundreds or thousands of downvotes.

I get that you didn't get a notification, and so probably didn't know you were banned. You did know you were being obnoxious previously, and refused to stop doing it until it escalated to an account ban, and then made some new accounts and started looking for new places to do it.

I think admins and mods those new places can make the decision about whether that is ban evasion, or whether they want to let you do this all again until you inevitably get banned again sometime later. People have talked with you about why what you're doing is a problem. Why they would pick that second option is something of a mystery to me, but I'll leave it up to them. I'm just relaying the information.

It would be a different story if you were just misunderstanding something, and completely open to a conversation about why you keep getting banned and what you can do differently, but you're clearly more interested in figuring out the details of the rules so you can find ways around them and keep doing your same thing.

[–] tron@midwest.social 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I'm not planning to set the bot up to notify dozens of users about their bans in a community they have never posted in and don't care about.

lol so your dumb bot bans randos, doesn't tell them, and you're too lazy to fix it and this guy is somehow avoiding bans he never even knew happened. this is straight ridiculous stop wasting people's times with this crap

[–] auk -5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Sending out ban notifications to dozens of users about bans in a community they've never heard of doesn't seem like good bot design.

I am unsurprised that a UniversalMonk fan would think that would be a totally reasonable thing to do, though, and at the same time that banning someone who managed to get an account ban from the least ban-happy instance there is when they make a new account and start doing the same stuff is somehow unreasonable.

[–] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

Dude, if your bot is issuing bans, it absolutely, 100% needs to be notifying people it bans.

Fuck universal, that's not the issue. A bot that's automatically banning people is bullshit to begin with, if that's what it does and I'm not entirely sure that's the case but if it's banning, and doesn't include a notification function, that's beyond bad.

[–] poVoq 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

There is no such thing as ban notifications on Lemmy, but the bot's bans are public in the mod log like any other community moderator bans. This seems like a reasonable design as notification spam by a bot is significantly worse than not knowing about being banned from a community you are not using anyways (and if you have been using it, then the ban is easily noticeable and doesn't need a notification either).

[–] UniversalMonk 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Just curious, and not to beat a dead horse, but if Lemmy can give us notifications that comments are removed, why can't it do a simple ban notification as well?

Because I always get notified when a post or comment has been removed.

Seems simple enough make the removal notification that led to banning something as simple as "Your comment has been removed for xxxx reason. And now you are banned from the community due to reasons xxxxx."

I realize that my particular situation here has been resolved and we can move on, but I'm just curious if the lack of banning notifications is a software issue or if it's a philosophical issue for Lemmy and the fediverse.

[–] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 days ago

yeah, lemmy doesn't have ban notifications (afaik anyway).

But there's a bot out there banning people from the outside. If that's going to be a part of lemmy, then it damn well needs a higher standard

[–] UniversalMonk -1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Fuck universal, that’s not the issue.

Hey now! lol

But yeah, to your point, I agree that any bots that ban, also need to notify. Especially since it's a bot, and it's automated, so it's not like it would be much harder to do than the auto-banning. And I don't routinely check modlogs before I post to a community.

This particular bot--if I understand correctly--auto bans based on someone's downvotes, not necessarily on content. Even if those downvotes happened on another instance. Which to me, seems even worse, because some people can be right, even tho downvoted.

The issue started because I had no idea I was banned, and I accidentally posted to the community.

Apparently, it banned my same username from another instance that I was on. My time on that instance was pre-election, so in the weeks leading to it, Lemmy was quite um, passionate about downvoting anyone who wasn't openly supporting Harris.

But I haven't been controversial or posted any controversial content from this slrpnk instance. And I do not have the same downvote ratio on this instance because I stay away from politics here--except for the post to his community. Which was about Bernie Sanders--who I adore.

But the username thing may be an issue in the future too, because some people's usernames are generic enough that that as we grow bigger, duplicates may be used unintentionally on different instances.

So banning based on downvotes of a user name on different instances, without reading content, seems problematic to me.

I have no problem with him running it in his community tho. His community, his rules, but the noise started because I had no idea what was going on until he posted this here.

But I definitely got the point, and won't be posting to his community in the future.

I hope that there won't be many communities doing the same sort of bot modding though.

[+] UniversalMonk -6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I’m not planning to set the bot up to notify dozens of users about their bans in a community they have never posted in and don’t care about.

Right. As you admit, I didn't know I was banned. Yet you called for me to be banned from this and other instances for ban evasion. Seems unjust to me.

As I said under the other post, I do believe this evasion was entirely unintentional,

Ok, sorry, I didn't catch that you were the one that said that in the flurry of responses.

You did know you were being obnoxious previously, and refused to stop doing it until it escalated to an account ban

And for the record, I do realize that you and most people thought I was trolling in .world. But I wasn't trolling. And I don't think I should even be considered a troll. A troll is based on intent, not dislike. I had no intention to get negative reactions. But people hated me anyway. And that's totally their right.

I stand by everything I said and done there. And I accept my ban there, because I don't run the instance. Their instance, their rules.

But in my definition of Trolling, it's posting stuff JUST to get a negative response. I posted stuff IN SPITE of getting a negative response, not with the purpose to get one. I am fine with my role of being a dissenting voice.

The majority of my responses that were called "trolling" were just me responding to people. I never name-called, or was unpolite. THAT actually caused people to name-call me and call me a troll. I stand by everything I said there.

People were mad because I wasn't voting for Harris and that I was voting for third party. And they thought that I was trying to sway the election.

But as we can now see, Harris lost by such a large margin, that even all if everyone who voted for third party would have thrown their support to Harris, she still would have lost.

So my posting my support for third parties didn't change the election at all.

Here is the link to my comments and posts from .world and that community that led to my banning and bad rep: https://lemmy.world/modlog/1252?page=1&userId=9454261

People were mad because I didn't vote for Harris. But I didn't vote for Trump either. And I think it's silly to think that people were so mad about that, especially after we have now seen how the election played out.

but you’re clearly more interested in figuring out the details of the rules so you can find ways around them and keep doing your same thing.

Again, that's your assumption of my intent, but that doesn't make it a reality of my intent. I have no desire to find ways around anything.

I honestly didn't understand your anger or the ban. And I didn't realize it was just based on a bot seeing that I had downvotes. I thought bans were based on something posted.

And as we have discussed, I didn't even realize I was banned. Now you've explained it. Now I understand. And I have no desire to post in your community now.

You didn't have to come at me so hard, man. So I was just confused and it set off a flurry of responses.

Please feel free to DM anytime in the future if you have an issue with me or would like to discuss things further.

As of now, I consider the matter resolved and I appreciate your explanations.

But it really seems that you are mostly upset about what happened in the past on a totally different instance. And I was already banned from that instance, so that matter has been resolved as well.