Place to hang out, memes, share experiences or just vent.
Welcome to all not wanting to vote, not able to vote or just annoyed by the US presidential election taking over Lemmy and other social media.
Coming here to argue about voting will result in a ban.
Be kind to each other & follow the server rules.
Be specifically aware that not everyone here is from the so called USA.
Look at OP! He will heroically sit on his lazy heroic ass and heroically do nothing... just like always, enamored of the scent of his own heroic flatulences... just like always, as the racist shitkickers get to take the nation on another hellish joyride fueled by ignorance and hatred!
Boy oh boy, I sure do LOVE the smell of my own purity! Aren't I the BEST THING EVER™️? Why am I so special and savvy and canny?!!
Yeah, I really don't get this take - from where I'm sitting, your choices are "continued support for Israel" or "continued support for Israel, also attacks on racial, sexual and religious minorities in the US, support for colonial war against Ukraine". Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is going to stand up for the rights of Arabs at the cost of political support at home?
Not voting for Harris really does seem like voting for persecution of Muslim, Arab, Trans and Gay Americans
It’s not even a wrong image. The idea that the “best” of our acceptable political class is still doing trade with modern Nazis, that selling weapons that make dead children is smiles and handshakes among everyone allowed anywhere near the corridors of power, is something vital to remember and keep in the perspective. That little girl doesn’t think Kamala’s a great thing for the world.
Using it as an argument for why it’s okay to release the wheel completely right here when the car is at the cliff’s edge, let it all get 10 times worse, 100 times worse, let the massacre in Gaza spread wild across the land like a brush fire, come at home and spread everywhere abroad, and also murder anything in the fragile system of supposed guard rails in the American system that might be able to put a stop or even slow it down, in the future… that I am less convinced by. It is the “logic” of the coward, the nihilism of the safe, telling theories in their heated home. It is abdication over any control over a system whose stumbling victims would sell their souls for the chance to have a sliver of a shred of influence of, a chance to maybe with sufficient work and sacrifice, someday make it stop.
Yep. OP seems like a Republican propaganda machine.
#sobrave
People like OP atleast seem to be the ones that will actually resist Trump fascism in case he wins the election or in case he stages a successful coup. I hope all the ones that vote for Harris will be ready to strike, revolt or show solidarity in case Trump wins.
Wait, I thought, "What are you even voting for? The election is Trump versus Trump-lite-but-female. Trumpism will win the election either way."
Would there be some kind of urgent problem if Trump won, or staged a coup? Will we need to revolt? I thought the two candidates were both Trumpism, and that's why we're not voting. Right? You need to talk to OP about this. I agree that Trump would be a massive problem and we would need to resist him if he wins, but OP is strongly against that idea.
He doesn't even want to vote against Trump. Surely if you try to talk to him about strikes or revolts he'll laugh in your face, because what's the difference, and so on.
Sorry but I dont have the same image of OP as you and from my interactions with them I believe they not only would revolt with us against Trump, they would revolt with us against any injustice.
That is in every single respect not an answer to my question. Would there be some kind of urgent problem if Trump won?
OP, would there be some kind of urgent problem if Trump won?
I'm not trying to say you shouldn't also revolt with us against injustice that isn't related to Trump. I'm just saying that you are talking like Trump would be a problem that OP would spring into action against, and I'm saying OP's not springing into action at all, in fact he's saying things like, "You’re powerless. The fascists already won," to people who are suggesting springing into action, and repeatedly posting memes asking them not to spring into action, in this one specific sense.
Maybe we can call voting a "flash revolt," where you only have to be there for 20-30 minutes, it's almost completely safe, and it can produce a lasting measurable impact extending for years, if enough people do it for those 20 minutes. Do you think he'd revolt with us against Trump, if we framed it that way?
That is in every single respect not an answer to my question.
Which of your dozens of questions that somehow are not really questions and instead are just rhetorical devices to get your point across?
I asked three questions, and one of them was, “Right?” That one was rhetorical, sort of. I was looking for confirmation if I understood things correctly.
For your reference, the other two are:
How many are in a dozen where you live? Also, would Trump winning the election be an urgent problem?
From what I understand, you are asking me to advocate for OPs perspective which is pointless and I am not going to do that. I would recommend asking OP directly and if OP doesnt want to answer then you have to live with that.
Also I would answer those questions with yes but just as I said I am not OP.
You’re the one who intervened in the discussion to say that OP stood ready to resist Trump, and throw some shade at these voting people, implying that they might not be willing to resist Trump. I didn’t chase you down demanding explanations of OP’s motivations.
If you say we need to resist Trump if he does come to power, then we can agree on that, at least. How you get from that to overtly advocating for not voting, I have no idea, but good luck with that. I hope your not voting and hoping plan goes well and Trump doesn’t manage to seize power.
I’m not trying to be argumentative with you, now that you’ve finally admitted that Trump could be a problem, because like I said, I agree. But everything you’re advocating as a strategy of stopping Trump from coming to power makes absolutely no sense to me. That’s why I’m talking to you this way.
OP seems to have dipped from the conversation, which seems wise. Because what could he say?
throw some shade at these voting people, implying that they might not be willing to resist Trump.
Well last time Trump won the voting people did not resist at large. Instead they waited around 4 years, voted him out and then again did not do much for 4 years again. What makes you believe they will resist in any meaningful way this time?
I hope your not voting and hoping plan
This just shows you are actually not engaging with me but with a straw person. This is something I never said and you know it.
But everything you’re advocating as a strategy of stopping Trump from coming to power makes absolutely no sense to me.
Which strategies you are referring to? I did not mention any specific ones in our discussions. It again feels like you are actually engaging with your perception of me and not actually my positions.
Well last time Trump won the voting people did not resist at large. Instead they waited around 4 years, voted him out and then again did not do much for 4 years again. What makes you believe they will resist in any meaningful way this time?
Wow.
So you looked at this set of circumstances:
And your solution is more !notvoting, and predicting that if no one rises up or does anything, it'll be the voting people's fault, when the horrors come.
Sterling.
This just shows you are actually not engaging with me but with a straw person. This is something I never said and you know it.
You have a reasonable point here. I looked over your profile. It looks like you like anarchism, anarchist graffiti, you like organizing and direct action. That's gold. I like it. It got me thinking about a cafe in my area which I think I should go to and talk to the people about getting involved in some sort of direct action myself. I do think that part of it is great, and a valuable thing.
The only place you lost me is where you specifically are advocating for throwing away a powerful tool for making change. It sounds like not voting because Hillary wasn't good enough was what fucked up the country so much after 2016, and voting was what got things back in a better direction in 2020, and now the prospect of not voting carries with it the threat of a new unfolding horror show that's substantially worse than 2016.
I'm glad you're okay with millions of people of the wrong ethnicity suffering or dying under Trump, just to teach the Democrats a lesson. I am not.
I don't think it's either-or, in terms of making change. I think you can vote, and also do direct action. I think not voting in the face of what's in front of us is a careless and irresponsible choice.
That's what I feel about it.
The only place you lost me is where you specifically are advocating for throwing away a powerful tool for making change.
Voting is not a powerful tool to make change imo. It literally gives the chance to make change away to someone else.
I think you can vote, and also do direct action.
I think so too. You can do that. I wont and I will not change that for the foreseeable future, so instead it might be more useful to find the things we have in common and look for ways where we can cooperate to stop Trump while dismantling the current world and social order that is build on patriarchy and white supremacy.
look for ways where we can cooperate to stop Trump
I know one way. You absolutely refuse to cooperate with it, though.
And here we get to the core of the problem. Even when I explicitly ask for ways of cooperation, there seems no good will to do so from you. This experience is something I make often with people that put voting on a pedastal.
Seems like I dont pass your purity test for cooperation /s
This might surprise you, but sometimes, someone who's trying to talk sense into you is looking out for your best interests.
It's actually pretty common that the person who's saying, "I won't and I will not change," and has simply decided that it's not up for discussion, is hurting themselves and the people around them. It's actually pretty common for them to say things like, "I don't pass your purity test" to try to defend their self-harmful behavior against people who are talking to them, but purity tests are not the point.
I would have thought that:
You have a reasonable point here. I looked over your profile. It looks like you like anarchism, anarchist graffiti, you like organizing and direct action. That’s gold. I like it. It got me thinking about a cafe in my area which I think I should go to and talk to the people about getting involved in some sort of direct action myself. I do think that part of it is great, and a valuable thing.
would have been enough of an olive branch, but I guess not. Your "I'm so cool for not voting" stance might get a whole bunch of people killed. I don't think it's a good idea. You may not like being told that. I definitely wouldn't. But, regardless of that, your "I'm so cool for not voting" stance might get a whole bunch of people killed. Therefore, I don't think it's a good idea. I think you need to hear that.