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308

Trudeau says Ukraine can strike deep into Russia with NATO arms, Putin hints at war (www.ctvnews.ca)

submitted 2 days ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

32 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Ukraine should be allowed to strike deep inside Russia, despite Moscow threatening that this would draw Canada and its allies into direct war.

"Canada fully supports Ukraine using long-range weaponry to prevent and interdict Russia's continued ability to degrade Ukrainian civilian infrastructure, and mostly to kill innocent civilians in their unjust war," Trudeau told reporters at a news conference in Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue, Que., on Friday.

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[–] remotelove@lemmy.ca 89 points 2 days ago

Putin has been saying NATO was already at war with Russia, so what is it, bub? You can't start a war that is already started, supposedly.

Hell, there was even a Ukrainian video released from Kursk of some old dude telling Ukrainian soldiers that he expected US troops... because the TV said it was the US that was invading Russia.

[–] fuzzywombat@lemmy.world 48 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Here is a video explaining the current situation regarding US and NATO greenlighting the use of long range weapons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3cgxeFNdqI

The point of allowing Ukraine to use these weapons isn't for Ukraine to strike deep into Russian territory. It is to deter Russia setting up logistics just across Ukraine and Russian border because they feel safe. This forces Russia to move their logistics centers further inward stretching out the line. Another reason mention in the video is to strike the bridge in the Kerch strait connecting Crimea and Russia.

NATO could have made this decision in secret and allow Ukrane to launch a surprise attack deep into Russia but that's not what's happening. It seems like everyone including PM of Canada is essentially broadcasting this new potential capability instead of keeping it a secret because NATO wants it to be a form of deterrent. This is why this is relatively safe move and will not escalate into anything bigger like a full on nuclear war.

[–] EnderMB@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago

A lot of people see it as needlessly dragging a conflict on, but NATO (probably) knows what it's doing, and has had plans for scenarios like this for years. Russian escalation in the region isn't exactly new, and it's the sort of campaign that NATO as a group will define its legitimacy on.

I'm sure that if both sides wanted to hurt the other they'd do so, NATO especially so - but to both sides it's ultimately a game. NATO will flirt with weapons, and Russia will throw citizens at the problem and use grief/loss to restore the "fatherland". It's why I don't see an end to the conflict for as long as Putin is in power.

[–] whotookkarl@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago

Just another reminder of the hypocrisy that Russia receives weapons and munitions from several countries and doesn't restrict their use in Ukraine territory the way Ukraine has been restricted with NATO supplied weapons.

[–] credo@lemmy.world 41 points 2 days ago

Trudeau says Ukraine can strike deep into Russia with NATO arms

Clickbait

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Ukraine should be allowed to strike deep inside Russia

These are not the same statements.

[–] Forgetspasswords@lemmy.world 49 points 2 days ago (1 children)

They should have been allowed to all along! 🇨🇦♥️🇺🇦

[–] takeda@lemmy.world 32 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Yeah, we (the West) screwed up big time. If Ukraine got full help in 2022, this war likely would be over the same year. Russia was very disorganized in initial invasion, and Ukraine only needed a bigger kick to push them back all the way.

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 24 points 2 days ago (1 children)

2014 would have been even better

[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago

I don't know that Ukraine could have done this well in 2014, even with help. They had 8 years to prepare for the next round that they knew was coming.

[–] jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago

I think there were some legitimate concerns about the potential nuclear threat as well as uncertainty regarding Russia's actual capabilities.

Now we've seen that Russia's claims don't hold any more water than a strainer, the west should be more aggressive with its assistance. The Ukrainians have already demonstrated that they are not just going to take it laying down and they're the only reason Russia hasn't moved on to invading other former Soviet states. I think we owe them all assistance we can give.

[–] thejoker954@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

We have a habit of screwing over our allies. Especially in fighting situations.

[+] SirDerpy@lemmy.world -13 points 2 days ago (1 children)

This isn't an error. A proxy war at the expense of innocents has always been the plan. It's what we do. The rest is just lies we tell ourselves to feel good about it. Ukraine needs to join NATO afterwards so they won't retaliate with "terrorism" like everyone else has in the past. Bonus: Allied airfields on Russia's doorstep.

[–] InvertedParallax@lemm.ee 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

This is bullshit vatnik propaganda.

The west didn't expect Ukraine to do nearly as well, or Russia to be as much of a joke. We figured kyiv would be rolled in 2 weeks.

Coupled with political nervousness after the mess in the middle east, and rising China, the west has been far too cautious, doubly so with all the support Russia has been giving the far-right everywhere.

We need to hitch up our balls and push forward, the risk isn't Russia escalating, it's Russia winning and continuing to rebuild its empire while China pushes similarly in Asia.

This is a new axis forming, we either stop it now or pay a far greater price going forward.

[+] SirDerpy@lemmy.world -13 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Afghanistan. Iraq. Iran. Libya. Syria.

But, suuuure. This time it's different.

[–] orclev@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Ah yes, it's...

checks notes

the US fault that Russia invaded Ukraine. Right, makes perfect sense, carry on.

The only involvement the US or even most of the NATO countries have had in this complete shitshow has been to sell obsolete military hardware to Ukraine at a steep discount. It was probably cheaper to ship the stuff in bulk to Ukraine than it would cost to properly decommission it so might even have saved some money doing that.

Russia desperately wants to make this a fight with NATO or even better the US so they look like less of a laughing stock for losing this badly.

[–] SirDerpy@lemmy.world -3 points 2 days ago

This time it's different.

I understand where you're coming from. I think you're naive.

If we wanted the war to be won then we'd have already settled it with superior airpower and munitions. Instead, we offer limited assistance and imposed Vietnam-style geographic rules.

[–] HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Don’t forget Vietnam and Korea.

The US is constantly enmeshed in wars, but when was the last time Americans actually won one? 1945?

That was 79 years ago. Almost one whole Biden.

[–] SirDerpy@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Don’t forget Vietnam and Korea.

Vietnam and Korea were hot wars. My examples are proxy wars where the locals retiliated with "terrorism".

The US is constantly enmeshed in wars, but when was the last time Americans actually won one? 1945?

We're achieving our goals in Ukraine right now, as we did in all my examples above. The last time we lost was Vietnam, unless we're also counting failed coup attempts (2020).

[–] HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

My examples are proxy wars where the locals retiliated with "terrorism".

Doesn’t that describe Vietnam?

We're achieving our goals in Ukraine right now, as we did in all my examples above.

Is your point that the US goes to war to fund the military industrial complex rather than to achieve victory? Because otherwise I’m not understanding your point.

I don’t think any of those conflicts (including Ukraine) went the way the US wanted them to.

[–] SirDerpy@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

No. American and allied troops fought in the Vietnam conflict. Our strategy evolved in the Cold War and proxy wars. A proxy war is fought only with fiscal, humanitarian, and arms support.

For example, we destroyed Afghanistan in the 80's by supporting the mujahideen fighting against the Soviet Union: a proxy war. Unable to communicate what's been done, they resorted to extreme violence in September, 2001. So, we fucked 'em all the war back to 17th century religious persecution.

I'm a born American. I love so much about this country at the roots of the land and people I meet in it. But, it's totally fucking rotten at the top and we refuse to admit it. If we did then we'd have to do something about it. Then, it quickly becomes obvious that voting isn't going to do jack shit. That's scary as fuck.

[–] InvertedParallax@lemm.ee 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

That was the moron wing of US foreign policy.

Look again and tell me this is the same, Russia has been invaded by their version of Canada.

This is what we should have been doing in the 2010s, which we wasted because of the inbred moron wing of texas trying to control oil.

[–] SirDerpy@lemmy.world -3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

That was the moron wing of US foreign policy.

So, the reason the program has been so successful for decades is because it's being run by morons?

That's how you're backing your assertion of "vatnik propaganda"?

Wow. Good luck with that nonsense.

[–] InvertedParallax@lemm.ee 2 points 2 days ago

So, the reason the program has been so successful for decades is because it’s being run by morons?

First, it hasn't been successful in the 2000s and 2010s.

Secondly, it's been "successful" if you want to call it, because we have UNIMAGINABLE RESOURCES!!!

We have an infinite ammo hack enabled, and we always have wall-hacking from all our fused intel sources.

The problem is, we're excellent at killing anyone we want to kill, that's trivial for us, what isn't easy is getting people to actually want to like us after we've just killed people they know.

Also a lot of our trouble in the middle east was encouraged by Iran and even Russia, those RPGs came from somewhere.

[–] droopy4096@lemmy.ca 41 points 2 days ago (1 children)

putin said same thing about tanks, long range rockets and planes... Ukraine got all of the above and nothing followed. Those are hollow threats of a desperate maniac who's cornered himself

[–] Maalus@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

The tank thing is so bonkers too. Like, in early 2022 a brigade or two worth of tanks in Poland disappeared and appeared in Ukraine, fighting. Nobody gave a shit then, yet other countries were scared shitless to donate tanks for like a year (some saying "oh russian tank is ok but WeStErN tank is not") like, what the fuck, a tank is a tank you little b-words

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Putin couldn't even handle a small neighboring agricultural nation, love to see his senile ass try the Pacific on for size.

[–] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

In this case it would be the Arctic, but the point still stands.

[–] Drusas@fedia.io 25 points 2 days ago

We shouldn't have been hamstringing them from the beginning.

[–] Iheartcheese@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago

The Kremlin is worth 50 points

[–] fluxion@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago

The way we slow roll this shit out almost forces Putin to make these threats because we're basically waiting to see their reaction...

Just roll that shit out and they'll be too busy dealing with ATACMS to the face to be staging press briefings to drop nuclear threats.

Worst case: you get spooked by his subsequent threats and back off after having already blown up a bunch of good shit. We keep shooting ourselves/Ukraine in the foot. Let them fucking win.

[–] Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

BRING IT ON YOU DIRTY FASCIST CUNT! NATO will fuck you up 6 ways to Sunday and THEN Ukraine will join NATO for sure.