this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
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"... The “dirty secret” of the insurance industry is that most denials can be successfully appealed..."

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[–] SomeoneSomewhere@lemmy.nz 57 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Interesting idea, but I imagine it suffers from similar issues to writing legal opinions: by signing your name to it, you're swearing that it's all true. Given AI's propensity for making things up, you need to check everything.

I wouldn't be surprised if 'knowingly filing a false appeal' is a reason to boot you off the plan in the first place.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 28 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It's still a lot easier to review and understand something you weren't able to write than to also write that same thing without knowing how to write it.

[–] SomeoneSomewhere@lemmy.nz 1 points 2 months ago

Indeed. Just need to remember that AI can and will hallucinate entire studies or court cases into existence.

[–] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I wouldn’t be surprised if ‘knowingly filing a false appeal’ is a reason to boot you off the plan in the first place.

For that to be an issue you would have to "know" it was false.

[–] chuckleslord@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

You signed it, verifying that you knew what it entailed. That's what the comment was pointing out.

[–] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Usually when signing things off like this, it's affirming that you believe all statements to be true. They would have to prove you willingly lied, not that you were simply wrong, which is very difficult to prove legally.

That said, IANAL.

[–] SomeoneSomewhere@lemmy.nz 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

'Reckless disregard for the truth' shows up sometimes, especially in e.g. defamation.

If the AI cites some legal case from 2015 or a random medical article, you probably need to ensure that those articles actually exist, and not simply assume that the AI is right.

If the AI said that a month's supply of Fentanyl is the recommended treatment for a headache, no reasonable person is going to believe it. That means that if you say that you believe that, the court isn't going to consider you a reasonable person.

IANAL either.

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[–] madcaesar@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

What's the legal code if you THINK something is true and you affirm it, but you are wrong. It can't be the same as lying since you thought it was true.

I really wonder what the law says on something like that.

[–] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 2 points 2 months ago

At least for something to be perjury there usually has to be "mens rea" (guilty mind).

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[–] kalkulat@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

by signing your name to it, you’re swearing that it’s all true.

Lawyers too use qualifiers like 'To the best of our knowledge' and 'in our studied opinion' to indicate that opinions may differ. That's why judges exist, and some of them are -so reasonable- that they will accept that people cannot be expected to decide whether a hospital's decision to operate -immediately- is not good enough.

These US 'insurance' companies are in the business of making money from people's health problems. In MOST OF THE CIVILIZED WORLD that's not how health-care works. We, the people of the US, let the system get rigged this way ... we have to fix that. Permanently.

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[–] Seraph@fedia.io 41 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Pictured: average Lemmy user.

[–] mholiv@lemmy.world 42 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I wish the average Lemmy user was writing open source tools that help people fight mega corps. That would be amazing!

[–] gwen@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

might try that tbh, what're your ideas?

[–] mholiv@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

I’m not sure what you can do. But she wrote a cool tool that generates appeal letters automatically. Just find what is bothering you and work on it.

[–] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Same thing but to automatically send emails to your local political representative. Bonus points if I don't even have to know who it is

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[–] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 months ago

I'm calling the oddly placed bosu ball.

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[–] moktor@lemmy.world 28 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Gave it a go. Seems like it has potential. I'm still working through an appeal. My wife ended up in the ER in May and was directly admitted to the hospital for emergency surgery. Ten days afterwards we received a letter from the insurance company saying they had decided it wasn't medically necessary so they wouldn't be paying the $67k bill.

It has been a journey trying to get the appeal together. I had hoped the hospital would at least assist with a letter from one of the many physicians that attended her, but nope. We got laughed at by the surgeons office and told condescendingly "Yeah, that's not how any of this works. "

My biggest concern from the AI generated appeals are being able to confirm the statements it is making isn't just a LLM hallucination. As a lay person, much of the things necessary to make an argument are paywalled out of reach. For example, the insurance company cited the "2023 InterQual criteria for Surgical Conditions" as the reason why they are denying it. The AI appeal that was generated states that per the 2023 InterQual criteria for surgical conditions that hospitalization was medically necessary.

The only way it seems you can actually get access to InterQual is as a medical provider / payer.

[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 26 points 2 months ago (1 children)

.... I thought most people actually just appealed most denials???

I was pretty sure this was already common knowledge?

90% of the time what happens is that you call up your insurance for some shit like hey my jaw be broken as fuck, and they go "nah thats cosmetic" and then you spend 2 weeks fighting with them until they cave and actually cover it.

[–] Buttflapper@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago (1 children)

you call up your insurance

They're "solving" this problem with less agents or customer service staff, automating the process so you have a robot to deal with that doesn't ever seem to understand what you're saying, and can't get you to the right place. Basically make it as hellish as possible to even get your issue reviewed. Then, they stone wall you and don't take yes for an answer no matter what

[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 2 months ago

ah yes, this should be illegal, i don't care how much money it saves.

[–] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 22 points 2 months ago (3 children)

...This is just a network switch/router.

[–] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 months ago

You sound like one of them fancy book reading types you get the fuck out! Lol

[–] Septimaeus@infosec.pub 2 points 2 months ago

Also looks like a few enclosures on a lower shelf (which could be anything) but technically you can run WAN-exposed servers on most routers, not that it’s advised just possible.

[–] Fillicia@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago

She's turning into Lain.

[–] skeezix@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

In an ideal ~~world~~ country, we would have a different system, but we don’t live in an ideal ~~world~~ country, so what I’m shooting for here is incremental progress and making the ~~world~~ country suck a little less,”.

It’s a good article. Don’t let that American exceptionalism creep into it.

[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

my brother in christ, "in an ideal world" this string is a fucking turn of phrase.

[–] shinratdr@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The turn of phrase refers to things that are natural facts, human nature, stuff like that. This one isn’t any of those things, it’s weird to use it to refer to something specific to one country or place.

"a way of saying or describing something"

hmm.

"Rather, Washington’s national security establishment has unthinkingly internalized a Trump-era turn of phrase that is rife with unrealistic expectations and unvetted assumptions."

hmmmm.

[–] Electric_Druid@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago

We love some good news to start the day

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, honestly the appeal is a standard step in the bottom surgery process in the states. I know one lady who had to explain to her insurer why removal of the penis was a necessary step in her vaginoplasty.

[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

"are you sure it needs to be removed? Have you considered just taking it off first?"

The insurance, probably

[–] JackiesFridge@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

"We heard that song. Aren't they all just detachable?"

detachable penis

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Hehe her dog is a donut hole with a PhD.

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I think the PhD may be honorary in Timbit's case. Though I suppose if she has a doctorate as well, she may have used him as a rubber duck, and therefore given him credit on her Doctorate Thesis, thereby granting him a doctorate as well? I dunno if that would work.

[–] bullshitter@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

You go human

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