this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2024
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Sorry if this is not the proper community for this question. Please let me know if I should post this question elsewhere.

So like, I'm not trying to be hyperbolic or jump on some conspiracy theory crap, but this seems like very troubling news to me. My entire life, I've been under the impression that no one is technically/officially above the law in the US, especially the president. I thought that was a hard consensus among Americans regardless of party. Now, SCOTUS just made the POTUS immune to criminal liability.

The president can personally violate any law without legal consequences. They also already have the ability to pardon anyone else for federal violations. The POTUS can literally threaten anyone now. They can assassinate anyone. They can order anyone to assassinate anyone, then pardon them. It may even grant complete immunity from state laws because if anyone tries to hold the POTUS accountable, then they can be assassinated too. This is some Putin-level dictator stuff.

I feel like this is unbelievable and acknowledge that I may be wayyy off. Am I misunderstanding something?? Do I need to calm down?

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[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 74 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (27 children)

Disclaimer: someone calm me and op down.

I couldn't believe that every post wasn't about this ruling all day

No, you shouldn't calm down, this decision is absolutely cataclysmic for the US should a dangerous person be elected or the ruling not overturned.

I've been saying the states are okay despite all SCOTUS' stripping of civil rights and everything else wrong with that country because as long as there were checks and balances, voting had relevance.

With this ruling,I can't see that it will continue to.

A president can order their political opponents murdered.

They can order that all civil rights be suspended indefinitely.

They can order a suspension or abolition of term limits.

They can abolish voting altogether in a hundred different ways and nothing can be legally done to halt that president from continuing to abolish voting until it sticks.

If anyone does manage to legally stop the president, the president can kill them or cut off their fingers and remove their voice box.

Literally anything is now legal, fair game.

Biden has spoken out against that kind of power and he has it right now, so VOTE for BIDEN to buy yourselves some time.

Whoever comes after this term or the next likely won't have the same scruples.

This is far and away the most dangerous and harmful decision SCOTUS has ever made, which is saying a LOT.

It is the antithesis of the line in the Constitution explicitly stating that no elected official (like the president) has legal immunity.

The decision to grant an entire branch of the government absolute(it is absolute, anything can become "official") legal immunity could very rapidly destroy the country as it is and turn it into a true authoritarian state within a week.

It takes some time to write, print and sign the executive orders or I'd say a day.

I have to read up on it more because I haven't read or heard enough yet to convince me that this decision is not utterly catastrophic.

I'm shocked the dollar hasn't collapsed, any further international faith in US stability is misplaced.

Antiquated.

[–] andyburke@fedia.io 14 points 4 months ago (25 children)

Article II, Section 3 - the president must take care to execute the laws faithfully. No president meeting the requirements of the office could issue an illegal official order. If the president orders something illegal, it's necessarily against the oath of office and should not be considered official.

My feeling is that this ruling means any cases brought against the president would need to establish that an act was unofficial before criminal proceedings could proceed. Thay seems fine to me to adjudicate in each case.

[–] ProfessorPeregrine@reddthat.com 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You are not considering the part where we can't use relevant testimony or documents to prove that what the President does is illegal in the first place. The President can just say whatever illegal things they did were official acts, and all the evidence that might prove otherwise is off-limits. It relies on other people in the administration to not follow the illegal order, but of course that is a weak protection and the President can fire them or do something illegal to them without consequence too.

[–] andyburke@fedia.io -2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

If you follow an illegal order, guess what you just did: broke the law.

Please, fhis strident unreality being pushed is JUST LIKE the fear mongering on the right.

This decision is by no means great, it may totally delay trials for Trump until after the election, that's horeshit in my opinion. But I also don't beleive this bullshit about this ruling making the president a king. Stop FUDing for them. Trump STILL HAS TO FOLLOW THE LAW IF HE IS ELECTED. Please STOP REINFORCING THE IDEA THAT HE DOES NOT.

[–] ProfessorPeregrine@reddthat.com 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Did you even read Sotomayor' dissent? I did.

[–] andyburke@fedia.io -2 points 4 months ago

Yes, and I sadly had to agree with John Roberts, not a good place to be.

The doomerism is just ridiculous to me.

[–] Perrin42@fedia.io 2 points 4 months ago

How can you have immunity from following the law? The only immunity is from breaking it; any law broken in a president's effort to execute their core official acts cannot be prosecuted or even investigated, according to this decision.

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