cross-posted from: https://jlai.lu/post/8269177
this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2024
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Why are the UK on here, were about to vote in a left wing party.
Bahahahahahahaha, omg I needed a good laugh this evening., thanks..
Guy literally purged every halfway leftist in the fucking party, and has spent his entire time as leader, and is aiming his entire election campaign on, pleasing capitalists and maintain the status quo. The man doesn't have a left leaning bone in his spineless self serving body.
Eh, still better than the Tories. Supermajority begins the process of dragging the overton window back left, which I'm all for
Literally the opposite.
Normalising the current Labour party as anything even remotely left, which it isn't in any way shape or form, shifts the window to the right by removing actual left from the map altogether. That's the whole point of Starmer - to regain back ground for the right after what Corbyn awoke in the party and country.
We are getting a Tory whoever wins, they just wear different coloured ties.
I'm hoping that everyone to the left of Starmer makes their move post-election.
Coming at him hard and forming a new party out of purged leftists, greens and independents.
But without a labour victory today we'll be voting against fascism next time. The Tories just did such a good job of failing and disgusting everyone capable of being so.
That's the same bullshit born out of wilful ignorance and cognitive dissonance that Biden supporters spew. It might make you feel better, but it has no basis in reality.
There is no voting fascism away. There is no reforming the system from within, since it's working exactly as designed - by providing an illusion of choice to make you feel like you've had a say, when in reality your only available options all serve the establishment (which is why while a leftist party would be nice, it wouldn't matter, because it would never be allowed to gain power since it would threaten said establishment).
Starmer isn't here to save you or fix the country, he couldn't care less and has made it clear over and over and over again, you just refuse to listen. He's here solely to shift our politics to the right by eliminating any hint of opposition, never mind leftism, in preparation for an even more right leaning government to come.
Your blind loyalty isn't serving you, it never will, despite how comforting it might feel.
Who said anything about loyalty?
I said I hope everyone moves against him as soon as the Tories are dealt with.
I see you're angry, but I think you're telling this stuff to the wrong people.
Corbyn got absolutely fucked at the election. Running as an out-and-out leftist awoke fuck all in the general electorate.
The right were more than happy to get their foot in the door with Cameron, before dragging politics in this country further and further right. Why are we so unhappy to do the same?
Also, when on earth do you think the Tories were planning on setting up a nationalised energy company, renationalising rail?
Right, because he was obviously the one who launched the massive media smear campaign against himself, dubbing himself "unelectable" and the biggest antisemite in Britain, to ensure the wealthy are protected from the devastating thereat he posed to their avoided taxes.. 😂🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
I guess hundreds of thousands of people joining the Labour party, more than ever in history (and definitely more than have ever joined the Tory party), and hundreds of thousands if not millions more becoming engaged in politics who had never before, is nothing. Or maybe it's just that you're being wilfully ignorant, or even more likely - deliberately misrepresenting reality.. 🤔
Because it's not what's fucking happening, Starmers foot in the door is categorically never going to move the oveton window left (his entire purpose in politics is to position Labour so far right that real leftists aren't even in the window anymore), and you wanting to model the Labour party after what the Tories do (voting with no morals or integrity and against the interests of working and other marginalised people out of blind loyalty to the party, sound familiar?) proves just how far right them, and their voters, have shifted in said window (proving what he's doing is working exactly to plan, and you're falling for it).
He doesn't represent me or any of my best interests, and never has any intention to even try to, why the fuck would I endorse him??
What makes you think New Labour is? 😂😂😂
(E: in reality, it's one of the many "promises" they've already u-turned on, or more like lied about, before ever even getting near power)
Also need to point out that in his first election Corbyn was only 7 seats away from winning, or 2,227 votes away from winning that election. So the conservatives and the liberal media and right wingers in his own party absolutely shat themselves and started doing whatever they could to make sure he didnt win the next one. Combined with the 2019 election being mostly about brexit and Corbyn being in an impossible position of trying to unite a party that was deeply split on the issue. meant he had his "historic" loss. And even then he still got 10,000,000 votes compared to Johnsons 14,000,000 so it really wasnt even as big of a blowout as the media pushed it as.
Dude literally promised to continue tory policies. He's a fucking Tory in a labour suit.
Yup, but people don't want to hear it, they want to pat themselves on the back for "doing their part" and move on with their lives without ever having to stop to consider what they're actually endorsing and what part they are playing in this charade designed to keep us forever subservient to the owning class.
I'm with you about the authoritarian purging of the party. Nevertheless, with the size of the majority that's being predicted it will be hard to keep so many people in line once they have gone from being candidates to actual MPs. The biggest opposition in parliament may end up being socialist rebels within the Labour party itself.
Labour tried to do things the proper way under Corbyn and got completely destroyed. Back to lies, treachery and 'Realpolitik'. The fact is that after all the u-turning that Labour's leadership has done under Starmer, nobody can count on them doing anything. That includes the corporations and financial sector, who are just as likely to be getting played for fools as the rest of us.
You can keep telling yourself that, but it's never going to happen, Starmer made sure of it.
By the establishment they threatened, which you are now completely willing to bow down to and cooperate with.
Wow, lmfao, if you think that you've really not been paying attention, Starmer has been pretty openly licking corporate arse so hard his tongue is its own shade of brown, his whole neoliberal existence is to make sure capitalists remain top priority.
Starmer doesn't give a shit about you or me, and he has no intention on making our lives better, nor do the rest of the neoliberals he's made sure to surround himself with.
I mean, when the US trolls say "BoTh SiDeS" we all laugh. Even the choice to vote for corrupt Torries or not-so-corrupt Torries is better than no vote.
Remember what we are getting rid of
We laugh because when they say both sides they're thinking about left and right, but in reality left isn't even represented in our politics at all (be it US or UK and plenty others, but really all nation states, since leftists don't even believe they should exist), so they're really talking about two different coloured representations of the same side being the same, which they are. Both serve and worship capitalism, and therefore fascism.
Also I never said anything about not voting, that's what people like you who refuse to see the reality always like to insert to make yourselves feel superior for doing the bare minimum, I simply refuse to endorse someone so blatantly acting against my own interest and the interests of the country and its people, nor do I believe the vote I did cast will make any difference, because the system is designed to be irreformable, and as they say - if a vote changed anything, they wouldn't let us do it. No matter who is elected, the system ensures we remain in service of the owning class.
Also fuck linking that to me, assuming I must be ignorant because I don't agree with your uninformed centrist take when actually being disabled I have actively and consistently been on the direct receiving end of Tory cuts for 15 years, and have suffered greatly for it. Labour is literally offering me nothing different, worse, they make it crystal clear over and over and over again that they don't give a shit about people like me (not just disabled, but poor, and queer, to name a couple more groups they don't give a shit about).
So you feel free to pat yourself on the back for "getting rid of the Tories" all you like, but all you're doing is endorsing another shade of exactly the same shit, and letting people like me know how little you care about our safety and rights (nor your own, since first they may have come for us, but they'll be coming for you eventually).
Starmer's Labour is about as left wing as the US Democrats are; by comparison only.
I mean, he really isn't. He's far to the left of them.
as i understood he has no intention of reversing the institutional damage from the Tories so he’s effectively supporting those anti welfare policies
He's pledged to set up a nationalised green energy company, increase funding to the NHS, and build 300,000 new homes per year. That seems a fairly decent start.
Issue is the Tories have tanked the economy and cut taxes, so Starmer's got fuck all money without raising taxes (unpopular, even though I think it's the right thing to do). Post election and with a massive amount of political capital to spend, I think we will see tax rises on those that can afford it, to help fix some of the damage.
on 'funding the nhs': his shadow health secretary says he will employ privatisation to reduce NHS waiting lists: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-59910107
incidentally he also accepted £175000 from donors linked to private healthcare and health insurance firms: https://www.thenational.scot/news/24250557.wes-streeting-takes-175k-donors-linked-private-health-firms
Not to mention renationalising passenger rail.
I swear some of the people on here only think you can be left wing if you want an 80% wealth tax of millionaires and are going to institute universal basic income.
Starmer is running a balance between left wing and actually getting fucking elected
Welcome to Lemmy.
Which is also a Tory policy put forward by a Tory thinktank.
That isnt actually an energy company and will own 0 infrastructure or generation capacity.
But he refuses to reverse the privatisation of NHS trusts and also those are both policies the Tories are supporting as well.
Nope. Both murican dems and cons are further right than Reform in the UK.
Not counting chickens until they're hatched, I guess?
Tbh the question is just how big a majority labour get, and whether the Tories will even be the second biggest party.
Nigel Frog Face Farage's far right Reform UK do look like they might get up to maybe 15%-20% of vote however. But thanks to our very unrepresentative FPTP system they're looking to get 0.15% to 0.31% of the members of parliament. In short they're facing the same issues that have held down the left in the UK for years.
Don't worry, you are still in the running, it's just a temporary setback.
Barely even that, the man is the establishment, and has proven time and time again that he isn't interested in the working class and other marginalised people. If anything, he's there to keep things the same so that in the next cycle of this sham theatre the Tories can point to the lack of improvement as Labour failing and get right back in to power again.
The system is designed to self preserve, this isn't a bug, it's a feature, and as long as people keep playing along and pinning their hopes on the establishment reforming itself, we're going to continue our rapid descent in to full blown fascism.
Because of the last 10 years or so?
Seriously, the Tories ran that nation into the ground and they did it with the full support of the voting public.
When did the UK get a new major party? Or are you just being wrong and calling the labor party left wing while their policies are just torie light?
Honestly, they are talking about relations allowing the rail - they are left wing. Starmer just happens to be a pragmatist who actually wanted to get elected. You wait and see how much better state the country is in after 5 years under a left end labour government
While privatizing healthcare and continuing anti trans policies. If the only way to be elected in the UK is to really far right shit then that's some societal rot right there.
The UK may even be doing better in 5 years but that would be an insanely low bar, currently the only economically viable area is London and the whole country is being overtaken by fucking Poland economically.
I was tentatively optimistic about Starmer on some of those fronts after writing him off as a hack but yeah, recently he ranted about how trans women shouldn't be allowed in bathrooms so...the grey area is gone, he just wants his party to be the Tories but painted a different color.
Honestly, good for you. I think you're entirely deluded but maybe I'm just jaded from seeing centrist parties worldwide fail for the last two decades.
I really hope I'm right
Me too
Everyone's scared of Reform UK I guess. Forgetting how FPTP will fuck them in the same way it usually fucks the Greens and the Lib-Dems.
Starmer's left wing is centre right.
It's really not, it's just actually electable
Well he's pro privatisation of the NHS, pro Israel,
anti-trans, dropped his electoral reform promises and to abolish the house of lords
dropped his green energy promises,
decided to keep private schools as charity status,
Is keeping the Tories cuts to welfare,
is pro university tuition fees,
is against taxing the rich more,
dropped his commitment to nationalise public services like water gas and energy,
dropped his promise to defend freedom of movement and refuses to start the process of rejoining EU or EEA,
dropped his promise to stop new oil and gas licences in the north sea,
dropped his promise to scrap the universal credit system
So please tell me, what is he offering to do thats actually left wing, that the Tories arent?
Because this is a meme. It doesn't have to make sense or be rooted in reality. Just 😂.