this post was submitted on 21 Jun 2024
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Men's Liberation

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Why men feel like they can't abandon Masculinity (self.mensliberation)
submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by spaduf to c/mensliberation@lemmy.ca
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This discussion was inspired by discussion on this post.

Toxic man: oh guess I am just gunna keep doing what I am doing if you aren’t going to tell me what to do.

The reason this comes up is that masculinity is largely based around externally conferred social status. You have to constantly be doing something to maintain an image of masculinity. Often this means some sort of social or physical violence in the right time or place (beat up the mugger to defend your partner, call out your boss when you're being treated unfairly, put rival men in their place). Just as frequently, however, it is the expectation of a certain amount of self sacrifice (paying for meals, military service).

What they don't understand is how anyone can expect them to maintain their social status when they are avoiding this role that they have been explicitly shown that there will be consequences if they fail to meet. The answer is simple: once you're out of the masculinity rat race, you're out. By refusing to take part in the hierarchy of dominance you will eventually be subject to a more general and, frankly, human set of standards.

The only problem is that all of these pressures are external in the first place and this whole dynamic creates strong social gender boundaries. It is very easy for a lot of men to look at their social circles and see exclusively people who punish them for a failure to live up to a masculine ideal.

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[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The majority of my casual partners have explicitly requested, or discussed how attractive they find, borderline abusive behavior: physical aggression, jealousy, catcalling and infantalizing language, relentless pursuit, etc.

What they say they want is usually not what they want. Let me take your examples apart:

physical aggression,

The actually attractive thing is being able to hold your own, and be self-directed. Anger and aggression are a pale imitation of that preferred by some women because they've never seen anything off the doormat - douchebag axis. Or, differently put: You can't be peaceful while being harmless. If she prefers a bit of a thrill loom there like a rollercoaster handing out tickles if you dare to get on.

jealousy,

Is a pale imitation of loyalty. It's what passes as attachment in lieu of meaningful connection, as relationship security in lieu of figuring out what both of you want from your own and the other's life.

catcalling

Yes she wants to be considered attractive. She likes compliments. We all do... at least from the right people, in the right situation, for a thing we want to be complimented for. The trick is to be able to mind-read :)

and infantalizing language,

That's about being cared for, having space to not have to care about things, space to stop adulting. If she generally fails at adulting that's a red flag, if she has her shit together, heck, why not, I can make pancakes with happy faces on them.

relentless pursuit, etc.

See jealousy. Basically the same mechanism.

[–] Smk@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 months ago

You are spot on. I've never encountered a women who wanted to be brutalized or something.

Like in any relationship, if you look like someone that is confident, you will generally be successful.