this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2024
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Hi there, as a Seattle local I have a legitimate question for you. The local democrats I voted for turned around and gerrymandered the socialist 3 term serving city council member out of office. The only member that was actually pushing for the working class politics I wanted from my district representative. What kind of incremental change can I expect to really see when that is how the party at large operates?
Edit: laughing at these down votes, yall are deeply unseriouse people.
FYI I downvoted you because you whined about your downvotes. Just thought you should know.
Next time vote for someone else. Local races are where "vote blue, no matter who" means the least. They're the most likely place to see progressive change. If you saw unfortunate result because you put a check mark next to a D and expected something miraculous to happen, maybe you should start looking into the candidates instead of their party more often.
But, most of all. Don't expect everyone to think the same way you do. Often they will have different ideas of what progress is. Sometimes that means you'll see a step to the center, even if it's a step forward. Don't be disheartened just because you didn't get everything you wanted this time, and show up again. And again. And again. Because the only way progress will stall is if you stop showing up.
WA state has top two elections so the majority of the time it's vote big D or little d. We also have statewide vote by mail so every election, primaries included, you can site down and research candidates as you mark off the ballot sheet, it's one of the few times I enjoy a glass of wine as I take my time with it as it takes up an entire evening.
Any other misconceptions I can clear up for you?
I don't see progress happening through the ballot box, increasingly I see more and more conservative liberals winning elections. And the progressives I once had hope for when they were first elected become more and more compromised as they try to work within the democratic party.
Just as funny, but more so because you read commentary as complaining.
What you can do - vote in the primaries, participate and support the socialist you supported (or similar folks) in new elections, etc.
Local elections, imo, matter a lot. And gerrymandering is a huge problem, recently enshrined by the supreme court as being A-OK! So you could use as a constituent, but... I doubt it will get anywhere.
So the best option is the next election.
Unfortunately gerrymandering is a flaw in the democratic process. At least in the US, the Voting Rights Act makes it so political parties cannot redraw districts to decrease the political influence of racial or ethnic groups. It says nothing about other political parties, so whichever party is in power when voting lines need to be redrawn will inevitably try to redraw the lines in their favor. Until that sort of gerrymandering is outlawed, it will continue to happen. The party in power isn't going to make it fair for their competition out of the kindness of their heart.
Right but none of what you said answers the question: What kind of incremental change can I expect to really see when that is how the party at large operates?
When true change is threatened it is dealt with in two ways, recuperation or rejection. Anything else is not change that threatens the systems of power and is allowed to be squabbled over.
Talk politics with people in your area, get to know people IRL, show up to city council things, do the leg work when you can. Again local elections happen locally with the people in your locality.
The incremental change that is had in this situation is not having the GQP win. Yeah the maps got redrawn in a way you don't like this time but don't stop fighting for what you see is right.
When you stop fighting the people you fight against will be able to steam roll through.
Well, looking beyond one local election might help. Sure, your district may not have gone the way you want, but another may have gone further.
If all you care about is what matters directly to you, then you're in for a bad time.
You don't quite understand what I am referencing if you think when I talk of recuperation that I am just referencing one election. Black Lives Matter is the biggest lightning rod that was very obviously recuperated in order to diminish it's radical politics, MLK was literally assassinated when his politics got too radical and threatening of the status quo and then his legacy was recuperated, even the New Deal was recuperation of the strongest labor movement because of it's deep socialist roots.
These are long standing ongoing problems with our political system and those that maintain it's power.
It's literally not how the party at large operates. As you said, it was your local city council. Why do you think the entire party is like this?
And the answer is, vote them out. If it's bad enough, impeach them. There's no way in our current configuration of democracy to prevent candidates from turning around and going back on their promises other than refusing to vote for them ever again.
You already know the answer, and it's not "throw your hands up and abandon the whole system of democracy".
You're not paying attention. This is a huge problem with liberal voters, they are highly engaged when opposition is in power, yet completely oblivious while "their party" is in charge. Or somehow worse, they will decry obvious issues as helping the opposition (as we see in this thread) so that the needle only ever shifts slightly to the right as the party appeals to "moderates".
I'm paying plenty of attention. I know Republicans have been using gerrymandering to have an outsize impact for decades. I know Democrats recently decided to stoop to their level rather than continuously taking the high road and losing because of it. I know that no sane person would decide to stop supporting the Democrats because of this tactic.
I suspect you're not being genuine here.
Gerrymandering has been apart of American politics since the country's founding, before the concept was even given a name in 1812. When the parties weren't polarized from 1964–1992 there wasn't a need for drastic gerrymandering like we see currently, but it still happened from both parties to secure incumbent power. It's why it was never legislated against, both parties prefer to keep it around as it is yet another method of keeping the broken two party system in place.
I'm being genuine, authentic, and fucking real with you. Both parties are shit and we deserve better. Democrats will never truly save you from the looming threat of Republicans because they are two sides to the same imperialist coin.
There it is.
So you disagree that America is an imperialist power?
Tell Pooh Bear I said "hi".
You really don't think it's possible that I am an American citizen that is critical of our government? That neither party represents working class people and I am fed up with spending billions in our name to kill children in order to secure resources we have no right to?
Your brain can't handle that possibility and short circuits? China is also an imperialist power, but they don't use military power to go about it. That's not really pertinent to this conversation though is it?
I mean yeah, you could be a useful idiot instead of a professional foreign agitator. Not much difference except maybe in 10 years the useful idiot will realize how foolish they'd been.
Do you view the United States as an imperialist power? Either currently or in it's past? If in it's past at what point do you believe it stopped behaving as an imperialist nation.
This is foundational level of understanding the world we live in and it's history, how that history got us to the present political climate. And if you're reaction to someone trying to have a conversation about it is to lash out like you have, then I have to ask another question.
Who is the idiot here?
Doesn't matter. I can tell you're a Chinese agitator (or got conned by Chinese agitators) because you just...can't help yourself. You have to start throwing in their code words. China is still early in their digital psychological warfare stage, they're too rigidly top-down controlled. The Russians have art and style at least.
You're trying to discuss with me whether the US is imperialist, and I'm telling you we're past all of that. We're past where facts matter. We're into the meta-discussion now. You will never listen to any arguments, because your masters won't allow it. So there's no point arguing.
So "imperialism" is a Chinese code word? You can't imagine anyone else talking or thinking about imperialism without them working for the Chinese government?
What arguments? You saw "imperialism" and immediately shut down, refusing to engage or say anything of substance.
You're certainly not helping.
Criticize China, then.
Nah it's you. definitely polcom type 14.
type mostly pretends to understand politics but just say vague pleas to emotion or le-reddit-insults.
CNBC or whoever coos in these types ears about how much smarter and better they are for being Democrats and well, not fucking much else.
You'll never admit that you only watch tv news sometimes after work while browsing your phone? No one would, on purpose. But sometimes they show it.
I see ya homie and i genuinely want you to shut the fuck up since by now you've probably figured out my my fucking trigger is arrogant, ignorant liitle shits.
Here, take a tissue
Are you suggesting it makes any sort of fucking sense whatsoever to help usher in a fascist dictatorship at the Federal level just because you're unhappy with how the other party acted at your local city level?
How is it a strawman when it's literally an accurate description of the situation? You're trying to defend helping Trump, a fascist wannabe-dictator, get back into power on the grounds that your local Seattle Democrats fucked over a progressive.
Here's a reminder of what you wrote (in case you try to edit it to save face):
Cite the part of either my comments that isn't an accurate restatement of that. I dare you.