this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2024
298 points (93.3% liked)

News

23311 readers
3614 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Around 9:30 p.m. in late February, a white Mazda pulled up near a game cafe in the Jenin refugee camp on the northern edge of the West Bank, where a crowd of boys and young men often gathered to socialize.

As the car stopped, a few people walked by on the narrow street. Two motorbikes weaved past in different directions. “Everything was fine at the time,” according to an eyewitness sitting nearby in the camp’s main square.

Then the car erupted in a ball of flame. Two missiles fired from an Israeli drone had hit the Mazda in quick succession, as shown in a video the Israeli Air Force posted that night.

According to the IAF, the strike killed Yasser Hanoun, described as “a wanted terrorist.”

But Hanoun was not the only fatality: 16-year old Said Raed Said Jaradat, who was near the vehicle when it was hit, sustained shrapnel wounds all over his body, according to documentation collected by Defense for Children International-Palestine. He died from his injuries at 1 a.m. the next morning.

Jaradat is one of 24 children killed in Israel’s airstrikes on the West Bank since last summer, when the Israeli forces began deploying drones, planes, and helicopters to carry out attacks in the occupied territory for the first time in decades.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] originalfrozenbanana@lemm.ee 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Killing an enemy combatant is a military objective, so attacking a building containing an enemy combatant does not meet any of those criteria.

You seem to think that the presence of a military objective justifies any amount of civilian damage and death. A plain text reading of Protocol I - which you have clearly read for the first time, considering you linked the wrong articles earlier - says exactly the inverse of that. You are interpreting Article 51 of Protocol I to mean what you want, not what it says.

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

No, I never said it justifies "any amount of civilian damage and death". Quite the opposite, I said the death of civilians must be balanced against the value of the military target.

Likewise, per the Chief Prosecutor of the ICC:

Under international humanitarian law and the Rome Statute, the death of civilians during an armed conflict, no matter how grave and regrettable, does not in itself constitute a war crime. International humanitarian law and the Rome Statute permit belligerents to carry out proportionate attacks against military objectives, even when it is known that some civilian deaths or injuries will occur.

Finally, I linked the articles that pertain to Israel. Israel is not a signatory to Protocol I.

[–] originalfrozenbanana@lemm.ee 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You didn’t link those because those are the ones Israel singed, you linked them because you didn’t know the difference.

The protocol I provisions on indiscriminate attacks define what and which civilian deaths are acceptable. Indiscriminate bombings - like blowing up a car in front of a completely unrelated building full of civilians - are unacceptable under protocol I. If your argument is that those attacks are moral because Israel is not a signatory of that protocol I’d argue they’re still committing war crimes, they just don’t admit it.

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

An indiscriminate attack is one that is not aimed at a particular military target. For example, firing artillery randomly into a city, without regard for enemy locations.

If a military target is known to be in a car and the car is attacked, then the attack is not indiscriminate. Even if a civilian is also killed in the attack.

This attack was similar to the US drone strike that targeted Ibrahim al-Banna but also killed a child, Abdulrahman Anwar al-Awlaki. On a much larger scale, Allied strategic bombing in WW2 targeted German factories but also killed thousands of German civilians inside and in nearby homes. None of these were charged as war crimes, because attacks against military targets are legally permitted even when it is known that some civilians will also be killed.

[–] originalfrozenbanana@lemm.ee 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Well the Geneva convention didn’t exist during WW2 so that’s a moot point and “the US did it” is not a defense of war crimes. The US wantonly commits war crimes. An indiscriminate attack is not what you described. It is an attack that makes no effort (or insufficient effort) to target only military objectives and protect civilians.

This conversation has reached an end. You don’t understand the issue, and worse don’t seem to want to.

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Even using your definition, an attack which kills a single bystander civilian could not possibly be considered indiscriminate.

You seem to think that even a single unintended civilian death is a war crime, which means that you don't understand international law.

Whether you like it or not, the ICC has acknowledged that belligerents are permitted to carry out proportionate attacks against military objectives even when it is known that some civilian deaths will occur.