For the abolition of work. Yes really, abolish work! Not "reform work" but the destruction of work as a separate field of human activity.
To save the world, we're going to have to stop working! — David Graeber
A strange delusion possesses the working classes of the nations where capitalist civilization holds its sway. ...the love of work... Instead of opposing this mental aberration, the priests, the economists, and the moralists have cast a sacred halo over work. — Paul Lafargue
In communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic. — Karl Marx
In the glorification of 'work', in the unwearied talk of the 'blessing of work', I see the same covert idea as in the praise of useful impersonal actions: that of fear of everything individual. — Friedrich Nietzsche
If hard work were such a wonderful thing, surely the rich would have kept it all to themselves. — Lane Kirkland
The bottom line is simple: all of us deserve to make the most of our potential as we see fit, to be the masters of our own destinies. Being forced to sell these things away to survive is tragic and humiliating. We don’t have to live like this. ― CrimethInc
https://bsky.app/profile/brenthor.bsky.social/post/3krzc7fs77k2i
Best job i ever had was maintenance guy at a nursing home. Loved it. Rewarding. Fulfilling. Paid only $10.75/hr so i left it and 'developed my career' and now im 'successful' but at least once a week i have dreams where im back in the home hanging pictures, flirtin with the ol gals, being useful.
So when people ask 'who fixes toilets under communism?' my answer is a resounding 'me. I will fix the toilets.'
Whoever is going to be using it. It's not fucking complicated. Under (actual) communism the populace is educated to take care of themselves, unlike in capitalism, which purposefully perpetuates the class divide through lack of education to preserve hierarchy.
"Under communism you fix your own damn toilet" is a bit of a hard sale I'd say
This is already the case if you're poor under capitalism. I have to fix literally everything if it's broken.
Not much of a difference there then
It's also terribly inefficient. We could do what we already know works better which is train some people who then help others. That way people can become a specialist at a skill they're suited for.
I disagree. First of all, a trained craftsment for sanitary and heating installations has to think about stuff like where to put pipes, which angles to observe, which diameters are necessary... All of this does not matter for fixing an existing installation.
And second, when people learn the basic principles of it, they also learn how to better maintain things so they need less fixing in the first place. Also if there is no profit incentive, there is no incentive to provide overengineered but easily breaking systems but rather straightforward and reliable ones. For instance the hardest part of fixing my washing machine by myself was finding what the god damn error code meant.
I dunno I mean a toilet's pretty uncomplicated and I don't see that changing too much. Just get the bean counters to run the numbers on making an idiot proof toilet that's made so like at least 1 in 3 people can repair it without formal training or instructions, against the expense of having a bunch of guys, maybe real plumbers, running around fixing all the toilets.
I mean, it’s not that difficult. It really is not. And, under communism, they typically tried to have local support groups for people. And, as for toilets, if you just ask someone down the street. I work in healthcare, but I’ve helped several neighbors with toilet issues. The house plumbing kind. You just help out your neighbors. Mutual aid, yo.
Mind you, large scale communism never works because, well, humans …
Yeah I'm not saying communities shouldn't be self sufficient where possible, but division of labor and specialized professions have proven to be far superior. People can't be good at everything, a learned plumber with years of experience is 100% more qualified than a random person with a YouTube tutorial like me.
Not to mention that in certain areas being a layman can be outright dangerous, imagine if your upstairs alcoholic neighbor would try to fix his plumbing or electrical wiring. Chances are it will be your problem as well within a week, if the house doesn't immediately flood with sewage or burn down from faulty wiring.
Lastly, I am sure that many people don't want to amateurishly fuck around with their plumbing, they would rather pay someone qualified to do it.
Oh, anything beyond fixture maintenance and replacement is plain difficult at best and extremely hazardous at worst. But we were talking about toilets, I thought.
I’m a big fan of division of labor, as no one person can be even adequate at all things DIY.
We are talking about toilets, yes. I only extended to electricity for the example, my bad
But we do seem to agree anyway ✊
As someone with 4 degrees, a high IQ, and the availability of YouTube, I would still never touch anything more complicated than changing out an outlet, and even some of those are a bit risky, depending on the situation.
I yield the floor to the sparkies.
In every realm, those who think they know things out of their field of expertise, just because they have a field of expertise, are typically both wrong and unsafe.
You don't need a degree to handle a toilet pump, and of course a sane person won't ask an alcoholic for serious help.
The point was that even a wholly unqualified person who is likely to do more harm than good in the attempt would be expected to do so, not that you would ask them for help.
Why not ask a person who has spent years learning about plumbing, materials, health requirements, for help instead? They usually come with practical experience in the installation and maintenance and also know the most cost efficient way to do all this. In exchange you could provide them monetary compensation for their superior knowledge, skill and experience on the subject.
Last three times my toilet needed fixing I was the one that did it.
Well it sold me. I'd much rather be able to fix it than not.
That works for stuff like "how do I connect two pipes", but not so much for more complex matters like planning out a bathroom, or wiring a house. Or worse, things that actually require practice, like plastering a wall or bricklaying.
So skilled workers? You're afraid people will stop learning trades?
No, I'm saying that's smarter than doing everything yourself
Those are all things where you can learn to do them under the supervision of an expert. And given the productivity we achieved with automation we could have a 20 hour "efficient" work week and use the other 20 hours for our "inefficient" shenanigans.
These things can be learned, so they can be taught. Don't use the lack of education we've experienced as an excuse for further lack of education. That's super weak.
Of course you can learn them, you can learn anything.
But are you really going to learn every single skill you might one day need? Does this apply to everything, will you, for example, develop your own engine oil from the fractional distiller you hand-welded, with the metals you alloyed at home out of the ore you smelted yourself, just so you can lubricate the electric razor you assembled by hand?
No? Is that perhaps a bit inefficient? Of course it is, because no single human being can learn every skill we have available in society, and that's been true since we invented agriculture.
There is no shame in not knowing how to plaster a wall, because that's hard. Just like there is no shame in not being able to hand-weld and operate a fractional distiller. Now, not being able to unclog your toilet, or paint a wall, is up for discussion.
I actually do have to learn to plaster a wall, to fix my house. People should be taught everything they need to know to live on their own, sustainably. I can't believe you're trying to argue against that. Capitalism makes everyone weaker, top to bottom. Wake up.
You won't learn complex skills if you don't have a chance to exercise them often. In 10 years, you probably won't be in condition to plaster another wall, if the only time you have done it is now. So you need to continuously relearn stuff, if you can.
I don't see the problem if people specialize in certain trades and can contribute to the community with them.
I never said people can't specialize. You're totally ignoring the point, which is that basic life skills aren't taught because capitalism assumes the owner will pay somebody else, rather than being actually useful people themselves. Try listening sometime, it may do you some good.
You are simply moving the goalpost. Basically all the comments chain talks about advanced skills. I can see there is a general consensus (and I agree with this as well) about the fact that learning basic skills in multiple areas is both beneficial and achievable.
The whole point of this comment referred to complex skills, and plastering a wall was given as an example of such complex skills. To which you answered "I am going to plaster a wall". Try admitting that you might have made an overstatement or simply have been too geberic sometimes, nobody is keeping score.
Fixing a toilet should be considered a basic life skill, in my opinion. So is plastering, which is basically just large-scale patching. Toilets are important for quality of life, or are you going to try and disagree with that too? You're literally the one moving the goalpost and you admit that by referring to the comments rather than the post, which was what I was talking about, and have always been talking about. Maybe stop throwing a fit just because I said the people deserve better education and that capitalism sucks. Both are true whether you like hearing it or not. Anarcho-communism believes in strengthening the individual so that if the society fails, the people can still survive well. It's called self-sustainability. Be mad at it if you want, doesn't make it wrong.
Fixing a toilet doesn't mean much. Unclogging a toilet is a thing, replumbing it is a complete different thing. I would say plastering a wall is also complex. That said, my objection has nothing to do with not liking your opinion, I am very much a critic of capitalism myself and I consider myself a communist. I simply disagree with you in where the bar is with regards to what people "should learn" to do and what instead should be done by professionals who do that thing day in and day out. The argument is simple: you can technically learn anything but you won't have the time or the possibility to learn well everything. If society fails you will need to give up stuff, despite whatever this prepper version of anarcho-communism says, because you simply won't be able to be a competent farmer, electrician, builder, doctor, plumber, etc. This has nothing to do with capitalism, it has to do with the fact that complex skills need to be practiced to be maintained or acquired.
Actually, it has to do with hierarchy, and as a communist you should be able to see that. Capitalism itself is a hierarchy, and you're putting the professional over the individual. You're denying people the right to learn how to take care of themselves. You're also making it more difficult to cross-profession. You're perpetuating the system. You need to check yourself before you wreck yourself. I'm not talking about learning everything. I'm talking about learning to be self-sufficient, which I already said. If you are actually a communist, being such a clearly not anarchist one, you need to consider putting your focus on arguing with the right-wing instead of your comrades.
Being self-sufficient is an empty expression. To reach what standard? Living in caves and off the land, roaming like 100k years ago? Living similarly to how we live in the West in the present? The former is possible, and so are middle grounds hence me saying "you need to give up stuff", but the latter is not.
Also, a professional is just another individual, possibly a member of the community, which I consider to be the smallest viable social unit for self sufficiency based on modern society. I believe in mutual aid. Capitalism's hierarchy is based on ownership of resources and means of production, not skills, so your argument seems completely pointless to me. A society in which professionals exist is completely compatible with a classless society.
Also, I am not denying anything to anybody, I am just stating that learning certain things is unrealistic and this should not be the blueprint for a post-collapse society in my view because it is bound to fail in my opinion. If someone does manage to be fully self-sufficient, all power to them.
I argue with whoever I want, including with leftists if this means building a common vision. And from what I can tell, my vision of what society should look like is completely different from yours.