this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2023
2411 points (100.0% liked)
196
16459 readers
2273 users here now
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
This kind of shit was a big motivation for me to leave reddit, and now it's already on Lemmy. Great.
You can have right leaning beliefs and not be a bigot. Hell, I'm not even right leaning but many of my friends and family are. They are not racist, sexist, transphobic.... This kind of post just makes the left look childish.
ETA: you can have conservative views and not vote republican. The republican party is a fucking joke.
I don’t see how people who aren’t racist, sexist or transphobic could vote for conservatives when 75% of Republican campaigning (other than “guns and taxes!”) is focused on being racist, sexist and transphobic. People who aren’t any of those things are turned off by it and would not vote for republicans.
I agree, just wanna point out that this post doesn't specifically mention the US
While true I think, as long as you're not some kind of an extremist, your political views don't matter that much, unless you're in America. Most people have their opinions vary on the political spectrum, some views are conservative while others are liberal. But in America it seems like you're either 100% liberal or 100% conservative and anything inbetween is hated by both sides. So you have to know if they're with you or against you.
I don’t have experiences with politics in other countries, so it would be difficult for me to comment about that.
Sure you can lean conservative but if in the modern era you're supporting and voting republican you're either in denial, or complicit. There's not much the Republicans have in common with conservative values these days.
Exactly. What's so conservatism about trying to murder congress and overthrow American democracy again, like what happened on Jan. 6? These traitors sure aren't trying to preserve the Union, that's for damn sure.
No, what we look like is people who've tried to give the benefit of the doubt for ages and gotten fucked for it. We've run out of benefit to give. Conservatives are actively hurting people in North America (probably elsewhere too) and we see ourselves and our children on the chopping block if we keep giving leeway. So we've stopped. You'll keep seeing more of this until conservatives stop hurting people. This meme is just a funny reflection of that. Maybe it's even gonna make some gears spin in some people's heads.
Exactly! You cannot support that party and be surprised when you get called a bigot. You're playing with pigs and you smell like shit, bud. Conservative values eventually turn into hateful ideology 100% of the time. Conservatism requires someone to blame for everything, and they never blame the people actually at fault, they blame minority groups that are easy to attack and exploit.
Being conservative doesn't make you a bigot. Being liberal doesn't make you a bigot. What makes you a bigot is hating someone just for disagreeing with you, or being part of a different group.
Bigot: a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
How can we tell the difference?
When the conservatives that's not bigots keep silent and let qanon do what they want.
Until then we we need more proof when people say "TFG was the best president, but I'm not a bigot".
Assuming someone is evil just because they like Trump is quite literally bigotry. You shouldn't hate anyone just because of their ideas. Attack actions and ideas, not people.
Supporting a bigot is bigotry.
Bigot: a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
Just supporting some policies of someone who is a bigot doesn't mean you support their bigoted policies.
OK. Let me try. Trump espouses bigoted and non-bigoted policies. A person likes the non-bigoted ones. They vote for Trump. Their vote put Trump over the line. Trump enacts both the non-bigoted and bigoted policies. The person in question's vote was the cause of bigoted policies being deployed. Policies that hurt other people. Does it matter whether the person supported Trump's bigoted policies? The end result is the same. The person supporting Trump resulted in bigoted policies hurting people. That person bears responsibility in that result, as someone who voted for Trump. So what we're saying is - you can't hide your responsibility behind the book definition of a bigot. You could try but we see the results in reality and we will judge you by the results of your actions. We're saying - look - your actions constitute bigotry in practice whether you realize it or not, and if you really believe that you're not a bigot and you don't want to be one, perhaps think about the results of your actions and what they produce in reality. Maybe don't vote Trump next time. Replace Trump with any GOP bigot and the person in question with any American that's in a similar position.
With the way our government works, it's really hard to not vote for candidates that you don't have at least some problems with. With the way presentational elections seem to be going, you end up having to choose which one is less bad. And in FPTP, voting for a third party is basically useless.
And not every GOP candidate is a bigot. I'm sure most, if not all of them, genuinely wish for the country to be better (same thing applies for any politician). It's just that disagreement over how to make the country better had devolved into name calling, which is a terrible way to get people to change their opinions.
I don't change my opinion because someone calls me a bigot. I'll change my opinion if they can show me how my view is flawed, and why their view is better.
And yet that doesn't change the dynamics of what I described. This is why every voter who has problems with whoever they're considering voting for should be weighing the bad parts. We know how GOP voters weigh the bigotry that comes with voting for its reps. That's all we need to know. The truth is literally laid bare.
That's a nice thought. I see you still haven't run out of benefit of the doubt to give.
That's your prerogative. We've ran out of arguments to give. "We" is the many people I know who are of this opinion. I've yet to meet a conservative that's arguing in good faith and is willing to change their view when presented with a sound argument. That's where we're at and it ain't our fault. We've spent years of our lives trying and gotten nowhere. The radicalization is just getting started.
See you at the ballot box!
Bigotry is a 2 way street. Candidates from both sides are clearly bigoted at each other. I try to vote for candidates who's beliefs match with mine, but sometimes that's hard. Everyone deserves to be respected, even if you don't agree with them. But so much politics has just turned into calling names.
I think the issues are systemic, not individual. It doesn't make sense that so many people would be evil. Look at the Milgram experiment. It shows that the average person will literally commit murder in the correct environment. So does that mean the average person is evil?
I am. Although I'm not just conservative. It really depends on the subject, sometimes I'm conservative, and sometimes I'm liberal. I really want to avoid just picking one side, and saying the other side is evil.
I'm not sure you agree with this, but here goes:
Call me a bigot all you want while you stand at the rally with your red cape talking to your chums.
I can ask you another question is Big Brother the enemy?
I'm not calling you a bigot. I'm just saying that everyone here seems to have really extreme opinions, and hates anyone who even slightly disagrees.
As I said it's because the extreme right wing is allowed to dictate what happens, while the rest is just sitting there silently and voting in line with the party.
You can't tell the difference between silence and agreement.
It's easier to ignore when it's not your loved ones at risk. I'll stop giving a shit when people finally just live and let live. I'll chill out when people can live their own lives in peace, without worrying about unprovoked violence. I'll cool down about it when the murder rates go down. I'll relax when people stop forcing women to bear rapists children. I'll calm when people stop trying to remove human rights.
It's simple, really. If you are against human rights, I want nothing to do with you. If you encourage or support people losing human rights, I want nothing to do with you. If you don't care about these things because it isn't you, we certainly won't get along. I'm over "Wait and see", because it ends with innocent people dead.
Abortion isn't a simple human rights issue. Every human has a right to choose what happens to their body, and every human has a right to live.
But with pregnancy, these rights are at odds with each other. Who's right is more important, the right of the baby to be born, or the right of the mother to not give birth? And at exactly what moment does this change?
Her body, her choice. The fetus is a parasitic clump of cells until it comes- out of the womb, and it is entirely up to her what she wants to do with it. The fetus does not have the right to be born as it is a clump of parasitic cells, not a person. Bodily autonomy is a fundamental right, the government cannot force you to donate blood, even if it would kill someone else who needs it if you didn't. So why should a woman have to carry around an unwanted parasite that does permanent, often harmful changes to her body and can sometimes kill her?
An embryo is a clump of cells. A fetus is an incomplete human body.
Almost everyone agrees that sperm or unfertilized eggs don't have rights, but they do agree that a newborn baby has rights. At exactly what moment does it switch?
There's a difference between mandating and banning a medical procedure. (Birth is different, that will happen without any intervention).
If the mothers life is in danger, then an abortion makes sense.
This is not an easy ethical question with a right and wrong answer. Just because you feel strongly about your answer, doesn't mean it is correct.
Anybody else hear a dog whistle?
Do you know what you call an average person who sits silently at a table with 9 bigots? The 10th bigot.
Or "sleep with dogs and get fleas" if you prefer a direct metaphor
You can absolutely have right leaning views and not be a bigot, but if you vote republican in the current political climate you are.
Your friends and family might not be vocally bigoted, but actions speak louder than words and if they're voting for a party that platforms on racism, sexism, and transphobia, then they are bigots. I hardly think it's childish to avoid dating someone who would support a party that wants to strip your rights away.
Also, Lemmy has always been like this. You came to the wrong fuckin' place, my dude.
Yeah, fuck, the “I’m being persecuted and censored!!” conservatives have shown up, great.
If not being a racist is your benchmark, I don't even want to know what else your family does.
Please grow up.
But it's not a deal breaker either.
Lemmy was created by communists for communists, conservatives, "centrists" and liberals gtfo out
the entirety of conservativism is openly classist, the entire ideology is built on ruthlessly attacking and stripping away protection for those most vulnerable in society. Besides, just because your family wont openly call me a slur for being trans it doesnt mean they aren't supporting a party who market themselves on wanting to strip away my rights. Frankly, you cant be pro-american at all without implicitly supporting the horrific crimes they have historically committed whether within their own borders or outside.
"Many of [your friends and family]" vote for legalizing racism, sexism, and now literally the attempted overthrow of the United States of America. If your friends and family vote for that and vote for taking away peoples human rights, they're terrible people. Maybe they're nice to you but they're actively ruining other people's lives. Your cowardice in continuating to associate with, tolerate, and defend these people and their evil behaviors is childish. "But! but! some of my friends are in the Schutzstaffel, they can't be all bad!" Grow up.
Many of my family and some of my um, not quite friends, are conservative, and all are varying degrees of racist, sexist, or transphobic. Granted, that's just anecdotal, but have a hard time believing people who vote for bigots aren't somewhat bigoted themselves if they're willing to throw vulnerable populations under the bus for 0.5% lower taxes or whatever.
You just haven't seen it yet. Try coming out to them as trans, see how that goes for you.
There's always Voat you can try, it should line up better for you.
This post doesn't mention bigotry, racism, sexism, or transphobia. So what are you talking about?
One of the most self-damning things about Republicans is how quick they are to start defending allegations of bigotry, racism, sexism, transphobia, treason against America, etc. upon the first mention of conservatism, without noticing that they're usually the first to bring up those topics. It's almost like the very concept of conservatism and bigotry against people for their "station" at birth are inseparable, and any attempt to pretend otherwise is just that: pretend.
If right-leaning, but not bigoted, there is a lot of space within the Democrats for that, and always has been.
Which is less than ideal, as the GOP remains populated by a mix of extremists & the grossly inattentive, Democrats yanked well to the right of centre, and the left utterly stymied.
But, the point remains that if someone is turning a blind eye to the harm being waged against their fellow Americans in favour of some nebulous lean (which the GOP's consistently do not bother to address anyhow), then arguably they are far worse than a bigot, who at least one can consider to be haplessly hate-filled, rather than blithely lending support to the hate-filled.
people can be disinterested in dating each other for any reason they want, it's not like you have to reach some level of hatefulness before they can say "i don't care for your politics and i'm not interested."
I agree, the "holier than thou" attitude is really gross. I was hoping this was going to be less of an echo chamber than Reddit but it's starting to look like it's worse. Let's blow this popsicle stand bro I'm out of here
Don't let the door hit you on the way out, it's worth more than any conservative is.
Also lol that the "fReE SpEeCh" crowd cries a fucking river whenever people use that free speech to tell them they fucking suck.
Free speech is the worst possibly way to defend your opinion. Your basically saying "my opinion is valid because it's not illegal to state my opinion"
bye-bye 👋
Lmao bye Felicia
byeeeeeeeeeeee