this post was submitted on 29 Mar 2024
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Well said.
I believe a fraction of them are actual authoritarian sympathizers, and are just hoping "their brand" will align with a future hypothetical autocrat.
They don't want actual justice, they just want to reroll the dice and hopefully come out on top.
To the other fraction, I think those folks are exactly the folks who completed those movements you mentioned. They worked hard to push the existing system towards their goal, often starting from a very weak position.
That pushing largely isn't done, and it is less glamorous and obvious compared to flipping the table, killing the current leaders (and a bunch of other demonized but innocent groups oopsie daisy) and trying again. That's how you get a Khmer rouge and then a pol pot.
We need another MLK and his contemporaries.
I agree, we really need some leftists who have the backbone of MLK.
Now that shit will fire you up. Good stuff.
Notice he was very forceful and determined, but never said stupid stuff like "hurr let's get the guillotine!"
Nor did he say "hurr it's your duty to vote for the lesser-evil!"
Well, it's completely irrelevant to the quote
Lol wut? He's saying that power comes from solidarity, and with solidarity you make demands, and when you have power you do not relent until those demands are met. He's also saying that the harm caused by direct action in pursuit of liberty is justified, even when that harm is to everyone (as in the case of a general work stoppage in an entire city). That you don't want to see the relevance isn't something I can help.
The point isn't to cause the harm, it's to use the threat to gain concessions.
Yeah that's about unions, in active negotiations.
You are not in active negotiations. You are in the end game. You have very few possible choices, and holding out (not voting) does not empower a track of choices, or opportunity. It only silos you into a particular choice.
"Sticking it out" does not better your scenario, and especially does not better the scenario of the most at risk.
Quit bolding shit, I know how to read.
Nope, MLK acknowledges that protest is meant to bring them to negotiation, it's not just when you're "in negotiation"
This is exactly the type of direct action MLK is talking about. You just find it personally threatening, and far be it from me to suggest that's the point.
You have no opportunity for negotiation, you have a binary choice in the upcoming election.
Edit also you included more text, I didn't declare verdict on everything MLK said, only that specific quote. Shitty behavior
Well then. Youve handle this comment chain well. Bravo, comrade. Thanks for trying so hard, my hats off to u. The troll might be a lil fed, but this is a public forum and ur conversation is visible for all to see.
Replying to one of the comments a lil higher up for visibility, but i enjoyed all the way down. Pleasr dont stop preaching <3
Hah I wouldn't actually wear the comrade title, I'm not that far left, but I do believe building a real progressive candidate is important, and a real third party would be great.
But I'm more a realist, and there certainly aren't a lot of options in this next election. That ship has sailed. All I really know is at-risk and marginalized folks are in GREATER danger with trump, so I'm all about avoiding that.
Sounds like a comrade to me. Your ideal society might not look like mine, but when it comes to it, you and i will need to be capable of standing/marching/striking together to make changes happen.
I will vote for the lesser of two evils to keep our ability to do all those things alive, and if streets get closed or the upper classes gets uncomfy bc leftists are trying to give workers somewhere better working conditions, i only ask that u underatand and respect those efforts as well and dont give in to corporate propaganda that the far left is evil, even if the road youd recommend is different.
Solidarity to u, solidarity to the working class, solidarity to the queer, and solidarity who wants any leftward movement from where we are, comrade.
Lol there's 7 months of negotiation left, wtf are you talking about "binary choices"
And I don't care if you think my behavior is shitty, or if you take issue with my agitation.
No, the frontrunners are already decided. You are in an outcome restricted scenario weather you like it or not.
Edit trump or Biden will be your next president. How will you aid one of those 2?
Nothing else is possible regardless of your ideals
Don't be dense.
Biden needs to move on this issue, otherwise he can't count on our vote. We all know Israel has crossed a line, even him. What's being asked is reasonable. It should be a simple choice for him.
Don't pretend you don't understand what's being asserted, dipshit.
Uncivil. Is that all you are?
You are approaching a 2 party, constrained system. Only one will win. How will you factor in?
Explain your choice, in detail.
And by choice, I mean voting action. Account for all byproducts and externalities.
What choice was MLK making when he organized boycotts in Burmingham?
Why are you pretending like our choice is flexible, but Biden's is fixed? Why are you so eager to accept the binary as given instead of pushing back against a pair of clearly untenable options?
Instead of hounding people online to vote for Biden in 7 months, why aren't you protesting his events and pleading for him to reverse course on Israel?
You have no clue what I do with my live. Your voice is flexible for the future. Your choices in the upcoming election are limited to 2
And I 100% reserve the right to tell Biden to pound sand if he doesn't reverse course. And being loud about that ultimatum gives Biden the choice between continued support in genocide and being reelected.
I agree the second choice is better, if only Biden agreed himself.
Good for you, we all have that choice.
Just be aware choices have consequences.
I highly encourage you to press Biden to fix what he's broken if you feel strongly about him not losing.
You know, as a member of the military, it's gonna be real interesting if your team follows what you do and we get the other guy as commander in chief again. I'm just saying, I'll probably survive, be fine even if I hide my beliefs again, but your smug "both sides bad" smirk will probably not last all that long with said other guy in charge. Unless you're into that, in which case, hey, I'll try to not be on duty wearing the jack boots as much as possible.
Try not to get too excited there, bud
No, but he would probably say to vote for the candidate that mentions they're open up integration vs the candidate who wants to make slavery a thing again.
Except one of those candidates is in the position to take action now, but chooses not to.
Doesn't change the calculation.
It changes what effective methods of protest you have, though.
Not really. It's a binary choice.
"Nothing else exists outside this vote right now"
Jesus, read a history book or something
That's the entirety of what we're discussing. Biden or Trump. Binary choice. You're getting one of em.
Sure, but what each of those candidates does is flexible, and one of those candidates can fulfill some action in that role right now.
And since that candidate needs our votes, we have some degree of bargaining power over what that candidate chooses to do right now and for the next 7 months.
Do you?
If Biden doesn't stop helping Israel, you'll help the other guy get elected? What kind of bargain is that?
You're playing with fire by threatening that. It's a terrible, terrible gamble. If you lose, countless more people will die. Are you okay having that on your conscience?
This is the world's biggest trolley problem, and you're advocating for "don't pull the lever even though more people will die"
If Biden doesn't stop funding Israel in the next 7 months, i'll make that choice.
But making that choice now when I don't have to isn't just dumb, it's complicity.
You're making that choice right now. If you stand on a hill with a megaphone shouting "GENOCIDE JOE GENOCIDE JOE!" for 8 months and then at the 11th hour decide to go "eh okay I'll vote for him", it's too late.
Are you aware of how protests work?
Are you aware of what splitting the vote is?
if you're worried about splitting the vote, and you know people won't vote for joe because of his genocide, it's incumbent upon you to either get him to stop the genocide or support some other candidate.
"If you're worried about splitting the vote, it's your job to split the vote"
Nice try commie
you know I'm not gonna vote with you, but the vote wouldn't be split if you'd vote with me
And you're still trying
my logic is undeniable
Not logic, but okay
id know
Lol I thought I was choosing something today? Are we voting today? Did I miss it?
Now you're just being dense.
Who's being dense?
I'm not the one conflating protesting today with not voting for Biden I'm 7 months
I knew you were a preemie
Hard to type with these tiny underdeveloped hands