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Toyota wants hydrogen to succeed so bad it’s paying people to buy the Mirai (techcrunch.com)

submitted 8 months ago by L4s@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

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Toyota wants hydrogen to succeed so bad it’s paying people to buy the Mirai::Toyota is offering some amazing deals for its hydrogen fuel cell-powered Mirai. That is, if customers can find the hydrogen to power it.

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[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

Hydrogen cannot be greener than an EV, because it's just an EV with more steps. It's energy intensive to turn electricity + water to hydrogen, transport it, pump it, then convert it back to electricity.

The losses from simply running electrons through a wire are very small.

It is physically impossible for hydrogen cars to ever be as green as EVs. In order to do so you'd have to break laws of physics.

E: ok people. You live in your little fantasy world where thermodynamics aren't a thing.

[–] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It is physically impossible for hydrogen cars to ever be as green as EVs. In order to do so you’d have to break laws of physics.

In a pure fuel comparison sure, does that still hold true when you also factor in manufacturing?

The losses from simply running electrons through a wire are very small.

You conveniently forgot about battery charging and discharging losses.

[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

In a pure fuel comparison sure, does that still hold true when you also factor in manufacturing?

Yes.

You conveniently forgot about battery charging and discharging losses.

I didn't. Those are very small. Compared to the losses of a HFCEV or even worse, a combustion hydrogen car.

[–] desconectado@lemm.ee 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

There are laws of thermodynamics and there are laws of kinetics.

Fuels have much more power density than batteries. You can't deliver power as fast with a battery compared to a fuel. It doesn't matter if thermodynamically one is more efficient or greener than the other. You would be crazy to suggest moving an airbus with a battery, that's physically impossible.

I'm a researcher in both fields (batteries and hydrogen)

[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

Sure, but I'm not talking about jets, which yeah, do need a far greater energy density than batteries can currently provide.