I'm surprised she's the first woman to be jailed for this... really thought this was more common than that. I would totally do months of even a couple of years of prison or whatever just so not to kill X number of civilian men, women, and children on Gaza... simply because that's not something I'd be able to live with.

[–] GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip 28 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

You are leaving out the indoctrination. If you truly despise the enemy and believe you are divinely entitled to do as you please, that helps a lot in not feeling guilt about it.

Edit: I don’t mean he doesn’t realize they are being indoctrinated, he leaves it out of his empathizing if put in that position.

[–] snek@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

just a bunch of indoctrinated teens

But yes, I absolutely agree.

[–] GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

See the edit

[–] snek@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Ah, I understand.

You're right, choosing prison over killing innocent civilians requires first understanding what is going on, something which indoctrination is meant to hinder. I think what I meant to say is that it's weird not more people have been able to escape this indoctrination and choose prison instead of service. Then again, Israel has been successful at this genocide thanks to their incredible propaganda machine, so I shouldn't underestimate the effect it has on people.

[–] GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Agreed, i just think it is very difficult for us comparatively free thinking westerners with access to largely uncensored information and freedom of thought, looking at the situation from the outside. I think we often can’t really empathize with how pervasive a concerted propaganda effort like that must be, being literally raised on the kool-aid.

Which isn’t to say we are not indoctrinated ourselves, perhaps more low key

[–] snek@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

us comparatively free thinking westerners

For myself, I grew up with the Islam kool-aid in the Middle East in an Islam-majority country and though the journey was troublesome, I very much managed in the end to shed religion and tradition off my shoulders and unlearn all the crap I was indoctrinated to believe in, including layers of anti-semitism. I felt like I lived in a similar kind of propaganda machine and managed to find my way out. If I can do it, hopefully, anyone can do it given the right opportunities, support, and time.

[–] FoxBJK@midwest.social 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It’s literally his first sentence…

[–] GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

See edit

[–] FoxBJK@midwest.social 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

He acknowledged they’re victims. Really don’t understand the point you’re trying to make here.

[–] idiomaddict@feddit.de 4 points 8 months ago

That they can’t know what their thought process would be like, without having been raised in such indoctrination. I think we all wish we’d do the right thing, but statistically few do. Propaganda is not the only explanation, but it’s a pretty good one.

[–] Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I see what you're going for but you wouldn't have that prospective if you've seen even a fraction of what the IDF has been putting out.

They're in on the evil, and they revel in it.

[–] index@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

There's probably more people not taking it but they don't want the public to know

[–] snek@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

You might be right. I found this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omer_Goldman