this post was submitted on 20 Feb 2024
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A Boring Dystopia

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[–] TheControlled@lemmy.world 34 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Wait till OP hears about mandatory service in other countries.

[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Do the kids of the ownership classes also have to serve with the rest of the grunts? Or are they sectioned off to champaign units the way George W. Bush did his Coast Guard tour? Or given exception like for Trump's bone spurs?

If aristocrats are on the front line with the of the enlisted, there might be better regard for vets.

I wonder if those countries also face the same degrees of top-down abuse and sexual assault for which the US Army is reputed.

War is Hell, but the US armed forces have more special hells than Big Trouble in Little China

[–] rambling_lunatic@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago

Over in Russia, the art of dodging the draft is a finely developed one. It has been so even before the, ahem, special military operation.

[–] maness300@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Do the kids of the ownership classes also have to serve with the rest of the grunts?

You will never see the child of a ruler get sent to the front lines.

They all have enough money to avoid serving, anyways. Just go to a different country.

[–] PancakeBrock@lemmy.zip 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Lol that's what I was going to say.

[–] bitwaba@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago (6 children)

There's nothing wrong with mandatory military service if your military doesn't pick fights with everyone else's.

[–] aidan@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

Yes there is, because forced labor is slavery.

[–] webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Voluntarily discipline style camps sure.

Mandatory would backfires on me. I am happy to help but to command my body around requires my consent and respect for my pacifist boundaries.

[–] bitwaba@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's not an exclusive thing. Most European countries with forced service allow alternate forms of service as well. My coworkers worked with an emergency medical service instead.

It's really moe like forced community service, but one of the ways you can serve your community is learning to defend it in a time of war.

[–] webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I am a huge fan of community service but you'd have to be specific about forced or i regard it the same thing.

I love my real life job but i hate that i need it to earn a wage, because i need a wage to survive and i would deliver better work if i could do it just because it enjoy it (and choose my own workhours)

I admit i am a bit of an edge case, if i broke the law i would gladly serve a sentence if they can convince me with logical argument that i made the wrong choice and can be improved.

If they cant convince me of that i means i am punishment while believing my innocence, it would be the most definitive proof of evil an immorality baked into the social contract and fuel me to use the few rights i would still have in jail to radicalize myself further within anti-centralized-state ideology

[–] unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I'm of the opinion that when a democracy forces you into the military there will be no democracy left to defend

[–] jj4211@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Well, depends.

Note that US military history picks me from trusting them in this fashion, but if mandatory military service were: -severely limited term -purely domestic (prepare for defense from active attacks, relief, and rescue) -not used in any vaguely law enforcement capacity.

Then I could see that as possibly reasonable.

Of course I'd be skeptical that a nation would display that sort of restraint, but just saying I could imagine a hypothetical that included that

[–] unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone 3 points 10 months ago

In Australia we had conscription in WW2 where the Citizen Military Force could only operate in Australia... but they changed it to include PNG so I guess your skepticism is justified. Then for Vietnam and Korea (why were we involved???) we had conscription for overseas.

[–] Miaou@jlai.lu 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I think you just described most military services actually (from democratic nations at least)

[–] TheControlled@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

HA! Sure, like countries that are protected by the US military? Like countries insulated on all sides by close allies? C'mon.

Also, America is the superpower. Nobody comes close to their wealth and power and military technology, and superpowers don't become or stay superpowers by being totally chill and getting cats out of trees. I would fucking love that alt-universe though. Sadly, it's power by force or show-of-force. USA kinda straddles the line of both. But so does France, India, and Finland, to name a few.

[–] sunbeam60@lemmy.one 3 points 10 months ago

Have you seen the Nordics? They manage both pretty well.

[–] Allero@lemmy.today 2 points 10 months ago

There very much is.

For starters, should things actually go south, they'll send you to war. I don't want nor plan to partake in this festival of turning people into slabs of bloody meat. I'm an aggressively pacifist civilian, and fuck everybody who tries to turn me into a soldier.

Second, no work should be mandatory. Turning it into a "duty" is essentially stealing my autonomy and forcing me to do things against my will. This is institutionalized slavery.

[–] TheControlled@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I mean, the US doesn't. It just drone strikes them. Picking a fight presumes it's a fair fight.

[–] bitwaba@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] TheControlled@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Sometimes, sometimes not. That's why books are written and classes are created and endless debates are had on the subject.

[–] bitwaba@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

Bomb them. No more debates.