Men's Liberation
This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.
Rules
Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people
Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.
Be productive
Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.
Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:
- Build upon the OP
- Discuss concepts rather than semantics
- No low effort comments
- No personal attacks
Assume good faith
Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.
No bigotry
Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.
No brigading
Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.
Recommended Reading
- The Will To Change: Men, Masculinity, And Love by bell hooks
- Politics of Masculinities: Men in Movements by Michael Messner
Related Communities
!feminism@beehaw.org
!askmen@lemmy.world
!mensmentalhealth@lemmy.world
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of course I'm vegan, at this point not being vegan is the b12 deficient thing to do. Compassion for all sentient beings is the next ethical step humanity needs to take.
Also, conserving it so they can do what exactly?
Continue sustainable hunting?
Continue killing unnecessarily. Continue needless violence
Only because something is not of any use for you, does not mean that everyone else is sharing the same experience. You could go out there and talk with hunters why they hunt and what they get out of it. I would not hunt, because I don't like guns - but fishing can be a really neat experience, especially a neat bonding experience with your father.
you can bond, get out in nature, etc, all without hurting fish
Or you can do it with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_N7RJSmcNo
If you want to say something, say it - not watching some random YouTube videos.
The video says it better than I would, but in short: asking "what if it was you?" is a good heuristic on whether something is ok or not
Wow, never thought of that one before - going vegan right now.
No one calls a lion hunting violence. it's the circle of life. If the argument is it's violence because it's unnecessary well we need to bring back the wolves and solve world hunger before ill be on your side of that argument. I remember the scene in the Orville where the guy felt eating animals akin to murder. Yeah in that kind of universe i can support it but we are not there yet.
Anyone hunting for sport alone should do so with a blade, its only more sportsman. It's not like the deer has a projectile weapon.
A lion hunting is violence. The circle of life is violent. I agree hunting isn't the top priority of problems to solve, but people should at least be able to call it what it is and recognize it's not a good thing
I like to consider plant eating an act of violence. I Just ripped and tear into those yummy plant heads that were just living thier best life. If we go with this definition, then violence is a part of life and we just accept it as a necessity. It also means it is our moral duty to ensure the animals we eat are not wasted, not suffer unnecessarily, and appreciate the life that was taken so we can do more with our own. It's only bad if it serves no purpose and is wasteful.
In some sense it is violence, but in another sense violence against a baby doll is fine while violence against a live baby is not. One of the key differences is the baby is sentient, the doll is not. The doll can not experience the violence, so it's morally irrelevant. The baby can experience the violence, so it is morally unacceptable. To the best of my knowledge plants can't feel pain, so violence to them is morally irrelevant.
But I still accept that harm is unavoidable (at least in our time), but our response should be to minimize harm, not throw up our hands and give up and perpetuate the injustice
we agree violence should be minimized but I think it's a hard sell to call the natural order injustice. Injustice for me is unnecessary harm. Justice can cause harm but only when necessary. Predators have to eat. Wiping them out is injustice and forcing unnatural foods alternatives is probably violating thier freedoms and damaging the ecosystem which I would also consider injustice.
why wouldn't the natural order be unjust? Survival of the fittest doesn't give two shits about justice, that's not samething that gets selected for at all except in social species, and even then usually it's only really selected for within the species
If it is unjust how do you make it just?
Well that's a massive question that we certainly won't see answered in our lifetime - we haven't even figured out justice between humans, and we still have a long ways to go on just that front. I have some ideas on what a more just world might look like, but some are not feasible with the current state of the world. But I think a good place to start is with the original position/veil of ignorance thought experiment
I get that as a individual the system is cruel but at a planet level it could not be more fair. The world has balance (human shortsidedness aside) so I see it as justified. This is one of things where I wonder if I lack imagination because only alternative I see is a tomb world. Which is out of the question so i ask myself do I simply accept what has been the cycle since the start of life on earth the only path or do I truly believe in the system. Like Stockholm syndrome. Since I hate late stage capitalism I must not agree with the system but that thought only applies within sentient beings not on the planet scale we are discussing. If I had viable alternatives would I side with you? Maybe i would. This will a be fun passive thought.