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193

Andrew Forrest calls for fossil fuel bosses' 'heads on spikes' in extraordinary outburst (www.abc.net.au)

submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by MHLoppy2@aussie.zone to c/environment@aussie.zone

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Australian mining magnate Andrew Forrest is attending the COP28 climate conference in the United Arab Emirates.

He says energy bosses should have their heads "put up on spikes" for not committing to phase out fossil fuels.

It comes as some companies, including the national oil company of the UAE, defy calls for a wind-down of fossil fuel use.

Quote with context:

And he took particular aim at the oil and gas bosses who were dismissing the calls, describing them as "selfish beyond belief".

He said their actions were jeopardising the lives of millions of people in overwhelmingly poor countries who were at risk of "lethal humidity", or an inability to cool themselves down. "If you can't cool yourself you're actually an oven burning around 100 watts all the time," Dr Forrest said.

"If you can [sic] get rid of that heat energy, you cook.

"And when these deaths occur — and they're occurring now, but when they occur at much larger-scale — I want these so-called people who are very smart to be held to account.

"It's their heads which should be put up on spikes because they wilfully ignored and they didn't care."

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[–] 520@kbin.social 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

As much as I agree with him, if the guillotine were to come out for the fossil fuel executives, what exactly makes him think he'll be spared?

[–] levi@aussie.zone 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

what exactly makes him think he’ll be spared?

I don't really know anything about this but... the article says he acknowledges that his own companies are prominent greenhouse gas emitters, he is investing $6b to improve his companies, and that he has large investments in renewables as well.

IDK how true that is, but thats what it says.

[–] sqgl@beehaw.org 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

He is investing in greenwashing such as his "green hydrogen".

Unfortunately it is not green. It is a scam.

[–] levi@aussie.zone 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

You're going to have to explain how green hydrogen is a scam because I'm not going to listen to an obscure podcast to try to understand your point.

[–] Chetzemoka@startrek.website 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

You need electricity to make hydrogen. Hydrogen maybe maybe could be part of the overall energy solution someday by providing a similar portable, fluid energy store as gasoline and diesel do now. But the technological challenges (like just getting the lightest gas in existence to stay in a container, for example) make it not the thing we should be investing large sums of money in right now.

We need to fix the underlying electricity generation problem before we can really even think about hydrogen as a fuel.

[–] sonori@beehaw.org 3 points 11 months ago

It’s worth noting that hydrogen is key to a large number of industrial processes, including the majority of metal and fertilizer production. While its use in fuel cells and small vehicles is rather silly, it’s about the only contender outside nuclear for ships. The conversion loses make it impractical for anything you can directly electrify, but that’s would only be a small fraction of a large industry.

Given this hydrogen is currently produced near entirely with natural gas and with several times the emissions of diesel, the idea of replacing that production with production powered by renewables is reasonable, especially since you need to overbuild solar and wind capacity so much to ensure constant power. Useing that spare capacity to make hydrogen, which doesn’t care about when it gets made, is also responsible.

We need green and pink hydrogen, the scam is coming up with more consumers of our currently minuscule supply.

[–] levi@aussie.zone 1 points 11 months ago

You need electricity to make hydrogen.

Indeed. There's a number of huge solar farms in the development / approval phase in Western Australia.

The largest in the South East of Western Australia is the Western Green Energy Hub which could generate 50GW of wind and solar energy and use that to produce 3.5m tonnes of green hydrogen every year. It will take several more years before a final investment decision is made and another decade to construct, but that's the nature of large scale projects.

I don't know how real the transportation problems actually are. Australia is already exporting liquid hydrogen. The industry doesn't seem concerned about it.

[–] sqgl@beehaw.org 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Nobody in Australia is producing green hydrogen. It would be nice if they started. None of his projects include renewable power to make the hydrogen. He just says he’ll buy it somewhere. That story is 2021, yet no renewable powered hydrogen production yet.

[–] Nath@aussie.zone 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

He isn't only investing in this. Look into Tatterang and its portfolio. He and his (ex) wife are among the biggest players in the domestic green energy space.

Yes, he has made billions digging up dirt and selling it to China. But he seems to recognise that he has enough money to get by and there might be a bit left over to try and make the world a bit better.

[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 2 points 11 months ago

He and his (ex) wife are among the biggest players in the domestic green energy space.

and theeeeeeere it is.

If there's no shift to that space, there no money to be had.

[–] sqgl@beehaw.org 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

This is one of his (note there are no WA operations)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CWP_Renewables

The other venture it seems he didn't want to invest as much in as his project partner Cannon-Brooks so the latter bought him out. At least that is how I quickly read it. It also was not in WA.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia-Asia_Power_Link

So it still looks like his WA Green Hydrogen investment is indeed a scam.

Last month we learned that quietly scrapped plans for a multibillion-dollar wind and solar farm that was a centrepiece of its plan to decarbonise the Fortescue's iron ore operations in WA.

[–] Nath@aussie.zone 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don't understand the point you are making. He's trialing the concept of using renewable energy to generate hydrogen that can later be used. What about this is a scam, exactly? That the process isn't profitable at the moment? I think that's the whole point, he is going to try and make the process more profitable and well, he can afford to run it at a loss for a while.

He's spending $3 Billion on this trial, great if he has that to experiment with. If it pans out for him, it might become a profitable venture. If it doesn't pan out, well at least he's trying to do something worthwhile with his money.

[–] sqgl@beehaw.org 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

It looks like a cynical ploy to greenwash gas. Simple.

well at least he's trying to do something worthwhile with his money.

I wouldn't call accelerating the burning of gas "worthwhile".

[–] Nath@aussie.zone 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

And what exactly is wrong with burning Hydrogen?

I can understand if your concerns are to do with storing and transporting hydrogen. But what's your problem with burning it?

[–] sqgl@beehaw.org 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

News last month shows how much bs Twiggy is spinning.

Fortescue has quietly scrapped plans for a multibillion-dollar wind and solar farm that was a centrepiece of its plan to decarbonise the company’s iron ore operations in Western Australia.

https://www.afr.com/companies/mining/fortescue-dumps-vast-wa-wind-solar-farm-project-20231105-p5ehna

[–] Nath@aussie.zone 2 points 11 months ago

This has nothing to do with burning hydrogen. If you are just throwing it out there as another "Twiggy bad" thing, ok. I'm not really defending the guy.

You see a rich guy doing something good with his money and just shit all over him as "greenwashing" and "spin" for PR points. You may even be right. I don't know.
I see a rich guy doing something good with his money and want to encourage that behavoiur. More of this, please. A lot more. Spend money on pipedream green projects - maybe you'll get them streamlined enough to be sustainable! It sure beats spending billions on more iron ore mines. If every Billionaire started throwing their money at green projects, it can only be good for the planet.

[–] sqgl@beehaw.org 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

G A S

Burning gas to produce the hydrogen.

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

[–] Nath@aussie.zone 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

You don't burn gas to produce hydrogen. You generate power with wind/solar, then run that power as an electrical current through water to separate out the oxygen and hydrogen atoms. No gas is burned.

This is not new technology: every nuclear submarine has been doing this to make oxygen since forever (not with renewable energy, of course).

[–] Wiggles@aussie.zone 2 points 11 months ago

You can use gas and other fossil fuels to produce hydrogen, but you can obviously use renewables too, amongst other methods. https://www.csiro.au/en/news/all/articles/2021/may/green-blue-brown-hydrogen-explained

There has been a decent greenwashing campaign to try to disguise that a lot of hydrogen in the hydrogen mix is produced using fossil fuels. This is to try and enable greater use of hydrogen technologies over other solutions, eg EVs vs hydrogen cars, and keep money flowing to the fossil fuel barons. Unfortunately, we do need to be careful when we hear the blanket phrase 'hydrogen', rather than 'green hydrogen' specifically.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/07/31/is-hydrogen-just-oil-and-gas-greenwashed/?sh=203dcf3fca04

This article is from 2021 but I imagine the percentage of grey hydrogen in the hydrogen production mix is still up towards what is stated in the below quote. The context for the quote is in the lead up to the Tokyo Olympics, Tokyo was using hydrogen buses.

Currently, around 95% of hydrogen production is what is called “grey”, including that being used at the Tokyo Olympics. It is made by reacting natural gas with high-temperature steam. This is the cheapest way to manufacture hydrogen but produces loads of CO2. In fact, it has been calculated that producing 1kg of hydrogen by this method will generate 9.3kg of CO2, which is actually more than the 9.1kg of CO2 produced by burning a gallon of gasoline, usually considered to have a similar energy value.

[–] sqgl@beehaw.org 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I keep demonstrating that there is no wind or solar to use in WA. That then leaves only fossil fuel sources like G A S.

G A S

Are you just trolling?

That is the greenwash you have either been sucked into or are trying to gaslight us with.

Twiggy has shown no intention of using renewables. The whole point for him is to use the stranded assets of the COVID gas led recovery (another scam).

[–] Nath@aussie.zone 1 points 11 months ago

When has anything ever been about WA? The very link you posted said he was doing his green hydrogen experiment in QLD.

I don't see any connection in this new link you've spewed up. It appears to be about a mothballed gas pipeline. You think it's a bad thing if he finds a use for this pipeline? Would you prefer that he build another pipeline? This pipeline appears to be in NSW, I don't get its relevance.

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago

A well timed petroleum filled jet