this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2023
288 points (87.7% liked)

politics

19072 readers
3813 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

"We recognize that, in the next four years, our decision may cause us to have an even more difficult time. But we believe that this will give us a chance to recalibrate, and the Democrats will have to consider whether they want our votes or not."

That's gotta be one of the strangest reasonings I've heard in a while.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] dirthawker0@lemmy.world 40 points 11 months ago (3 children)

It's notable that the Republicans have not attempted to court the pro Palestinian voters in reaction to the anger at Biden. Because they are if anything more pro Israel / anti Palestine than the Democrats.

I agree that the Dems are the "only slightly better" party in a few aspects, and they need to do better. But slightly better is still better than the alternative and we need to vote like it.

[–] TechyDad@lemmy.world 24 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I use a taxi analogy often when it comes to issues like this. You're on 8th Street and want to get to 1st Street. There are two taxis in front of you a Blue Taxi and a Red Taxi. The Blue Taxi will take you to 4th Street. The Red Taxi will take you to 21st Street before beating you up and leaving you for dead in the gutter.

Which taxi do you take?

Note: "Neither" isn't an option because if you don't choose, then some random people choose for you and shove you in the taxi.

Yes, neither taxi takes you to your destination, but the Blue taxi is a lot easier to recover from and reach your destination than the Red taxi.

Would it be better if you had a taxi that took you to your exact destination? Definitely, but this is where realism meets idealism. In the real world, you rarely have perfect options. You often need to decide which option is closest to perfect for you. In this case, the Democrats/Blue taxi are flawed but are worlds better than the Republicans/Red taxi.

[–] capital@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

This exceedingly simple logic seems beyond a good portion of the US population.

[–] PineRune@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

Blue taxi runs out of gas halfway there because the red taxi siphoned it out for their own use.

[–] Dinsmore@sh.itjust.works 0 points 11 months ago

Yet in a state where you WILL be shoved in a blue or red taxi no matter what (say, CA for blue), you could vote for a green taxi stand to be put there so at least next time there are more options - or at least the blue taxi will deliver you to 3rd street.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

The problem is that the blue taxi only promises to take you to 4th. When you get in, it just sits there. When you ask the driver why he's not moving, he insists that he is and tells you that you must be from the other cab company. If you try to get out and walk, he screams at you. As long as you're in the cab and not perfectly silent about wanting to get any closer to your destination, the driver screams at you. Eventually the driver gets mad if you're not smiling.

[–] Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca 8 points 11 months ago

Not great, sure, but I still have all my teeth.

[–] JustZ@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

With blue taxis, you could run for driver. With red taxis, you get what you get.

[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 20 points 11 months ago (2 children)
[–] floppade@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago

They’re all paying for it enthusiastically. I don’t care if some posture differently personally.

[–] banneryear1868@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I dunno if people know Biden's past as a darling of the Israel lobby. Obama used to attend pro-Palestinian events and knows very well what's going on, part of why he picked Biden was because he was disliked by the Israel lobby, and that was his way of courting them. Of course at the helm he had to go back on his views. That's kind of the point here too, what's in the best interest of US foreign policy is largely determined by the military industrial complex, voters don't have a say in this really. Neither does the President in a lot of respects either, because furthering the country's foreign policy is more about what America is to the world than what the parties are to Americans.

Given Biden's poor polling in basically every swing state against Trump the party should really be picking a better candidate if they want a guaranteed victory in the election. I'd be doing the same as these Muslim groups if I was in the US because I'd want the Democrats to win, I don't see a way forward for this right now without the party stepping up with some major changes. What I see instead are Democrat voters shaming potential Democrat voters in to voting instead of demanding the party do better, and yes it's true if those people voted we wouldn't get Trump again, but saying as much is more about validating your position than actually doing the work to get that victory. I feel like at this point Democrat voters are just going to shame people for caring about genocide and there's no way that's going to get them votes, probably more the opposite.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

What I see instead are Democrat voters shaming potential Democrat voters in to voting instead of demanding the party do better

I mean the reality here is just that you and I want different things. I don't want the Democrat party to "do better" in any some ways you want, and you don't want them to "do better" in some ways I want. That's just what being in a coalition is, and Dems are a very broad coalition

[–] banneryear1868@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

To be clear by "do better" I mean appeal to most voters, which means transferring politics that have broad support in to policies. Right now they provide policy and basically invent the politics to underlie it.

Also let's be clear what's being asked of Muslim voters right now, "support the fascist genocide against your people vicariously by supporting the Democrats, because the alternative will be worse." That's a BIG ask, that's why it's never addressed directly and diverted with "this is the best you can get." To then shame those voters and blame them for worsening the situation... you're telling them this system requires them to die one way or another. I don't blame them one bit for taking this position.

[–] floppade@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago

Thank you. You said this much more nicely than I could.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

I don’t want the Democrat party to “do better” in any some ways you want, and you don’t want them to “do better” in some ways I want.

When was the last time the party did better in ways you didn't want?