this post was submitted on 29 Nov 2023
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I just got up from conversation with a couple of older black men, that I said "well I got to go back to work and start cracking the whip." And it occurred to me then that it was probably a really insensitive stupid thing to say.

Sadly, it hadn't occurred to me until it's already said.

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[โ€“] WashedOver@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

In school there was a group of mostly white friends that had a Asian kid in their friends group. His nickname was Nip. I honestly didn't know his real name as another was never used. It was a few years before I realized the connotation that was there once I started studying history. Not sure if it was a parent or where it came from but most of us at the time had no idea how bad it was. It was just his name and he used it too.

Then I think of my church going father. One of the kindest men I knew. Never had a bad thing to say about anyone unless it was personal thing based on a issue first hand.

Race wasn't on his mind at all. Being from the westcoast in a remote wilderness area most of the demographic was white and native with very few in those days what were called east Indians and Asians mixed in. More the exception if at all.

He worked for a logging outfit and towards the end of his career he was a logging road grader operator. I recall going down a road that he maintained in a Jeep with him. As I was navigating this rough road the logging trucks pounded constantly he told me to watch out for this large rock that was below the surface. Just the head of the rock was sticking up. He called them " the N word- heads" I was shocked. I knew he wasn't racist and was friends with the only black church member in town but the word just came out of this mouth as easily as any other word.

I asked him why he called it that, he said that's just what they were called. He didn't continue after that day with me as I don't think he thought about it until our conversation.

In some ways I did equate this to the numerous white kids I knew singing the NWA lyrics in school despite not even seeing a black kid before but this was in the 90s. I can still hear those lyrics as I type this.

Now this isn't to say kids were not nasty, as they were. There were several unkind things used when talking about the native kids that made up to half the school population and more of that where my family lived.

Back to my grandfather's time bonds were formed with the local native bands and friends were made but I'm sure the languaged used at times like "Indian giver" wasn't connected to the real reality.

I do fear as I get older I'm falling into one of these traps with gender and identity words. I think as we get older and comfortable with our understanding of the world we have figured out, some aren't really willing to figure out more.

Despite interacting and having friends from the older local gay community I've not been exposed to anyone that introduces themselves with their name and then their pronouns.

I'm not sure if we can just call everyone "them" or "they" without offending people? Feels like a good starting place but I've not learned yet it this is as bad as the N-word?

[โ€“] BabyVi@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 year ago

It would certainly be more convenient if they/them became a generic pronoun for everyone regardless of gender. But at the moment it's not nessararily polite to use it that way in all circumstances. There are people that only use gendered pronouns to refer to themselves, to the exclusion of neutral pronouns like they/them. Generally if there's any uncertainty about someone else's preferred pronouns you can just ask. If you wanna skirt around it you can introduce yourself including your pronouns which will give others a safe opportunity to do the same. Messing up someones pronouns can be embarrassing but it's not the same as dropping a slur. (Though it can still be very hurtful to those involved.)

[โ€“] Thisfox@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Here in Australia I am surrounded by people of many different genders, and so far have not caused complaint by using they/them for everyone, regardless of gender, whether cis or trans. Plenty of others do the same, and they tend to be people wearing the rainbow flag, rather than the insensitive.

It is always best to ask and try to remember the pronouns, but often it is not possible at the time, and it is better to err on the side of caution when you don't know yet what they use. Eg: As a female, I do prefer she/her, but if someone didn't know that, then I would still prefer they/them to being persistently referred to as he/him. Males likely have a similar dislike of being referred to with the wrong pronouns, but they/them encompasses everyone in common Australian English (eg "whoever left their jumper behind, they need to go pick it up from the office") so seems the best compromise till a conversation can happen.

[โ€“] WashedOver@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago

Great tips. I've for years referred to most people at work as hey guys (males and female) and then ladies when it was a older group of them in a department. Orientation was never really apart of the discussion for any of us. If taking about people at home it was my husband, wife, gf, bf, partner. Didn't really get much deeper than that.