this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
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And what does Hamas want? The article doesn't mention them.
Worth asking that and what Israel's conservative ruling party want. Those two will be the ones to decide what happens next.
How is that even relevant when it is clear that it is not Hamas being targeted but the entire indigenous populace? It always has been.
Their comment is disingenuous at best.
First, the violences are not equivalent in both their scope nor justification. Second, both may commit violence, but only one is the cause of violence, and has been for the past century. It was one group that colonized the other. It was one group that ethnically cleansed the other to create an artificial majority. It was one group that manufactured an apartheid state because they wanted supremacy in place of equality. "Both-sidesing" this conflict does not serve any purpose other than to show everyone that you have your head buried in the sand and speak through vibrations propagating from your intestinal chords.
It is suspect that you ask this of Hamas and not of Israel which has established a rapport of not respecting or outright breaking agreements, at least two of which are notorious for leading to some of the most infamous massacres of innocents perpetuated or facilitated by the Israelis.
You cannot possibly be this daft, are you? Please tell me that you are actually arguing in bad faith because at least then the bullshit observed in this thread would make some sense.
I think if you want to make sense of some of the comments you react so hard to you need to read up on the larger history of the communities involved. Especially on the Ottoman empire from say 1700 and the yishuv that was born out of it.
It's a complex issue and there isn't an easy fix. A two-state solution might be the best option but it requires a lot of flexibility and compromise. Otherwise, a DMZ like Korea with clear separation.
Are you really going to look at those rockets and act like they're actions taken in the void? Are you going to deny that the actions, attitudes, and behaviors of the indigenous are symptoms and responses to the systematic oppression, forced colonization, and atrocities perpetuated by Zionists and their Israeli state from the past century? Have you been burying your head in the sand all this time, or perhaps you acknowledge the oppression but want the oppressed to become the perfect victims where they only peacefully protest only to be beaten and arrested in the occupied West Bank or sniped in Gaza as they try to breach the walls of their concentration camp with subsequent cheering from the IDF.
Well if you are limiting your history to (part of) the last century, you would just be making the same mistake. A lot of zionists were children of the Ottoman empire themselves, gathering in Palestine to escape religious oppression in islamic states.
Nationalist Islamic Palestinians are trying to sabotage a two state solution just as much as their Jewish counterparts. At the base level, their bomb and rocket attacks are more of a proponent of that sentiment than they are a symptom of Israeli oppression
They are going to start firing rockets again, Israel is going to fuck Gaza up again. It's not actions in a void but it will happen by firing those rockets.
Is there really an "indigenous" people to the palestine area like there are in others? The area has been conquered, reconquered, genocided and force converted a great many times in the past 3k years.
Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Egyptians, Arab Mamlukes, Byzantine Crusaders, (Mongols), Arab Caliphates, Ottomans, Brits and lastly Arabs and Israelites.
They likely still want what they always have, freedom from the violence of their oppressors and a return to their indigenous lands. Until Israel, by choice or force, stops it's decades long settler colonial violence against Palestinians - or succeeds in their annihilation attempts - this will continue.
And death to Israel? You forgot that part. I'm all for the rest.
No, actually.
You'd be a fool to believe they'd stop there
Why, because Israel didn't stop where they agreed? Maybe stop projecting the real actions of the oppressor onto the ones being oppressed.
We have no idea what Hamas would or wouldn't do in the future, only what has already happened and what they publicly declare. In any situation, what Hamas wants is largely irrelevant if nothing is done to stop Israel from continuing their decades long ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people.
We don't have to take them at their word though.
Yes we do have a history showing what hamas will do and it isn’t pretty
Both sides had planned to push out the other in '48. If the battles worked out differently oppressor/oppressed would just be reversed
What's a rocket or two in the grand scheme of things after 1996. I suppose just a nice hello. OK, now you go.