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Studies have shown that after around 2 years of HRT the strength of trans women level out to the average of cis women. The only things that really stay the same are things like bone length /bone density, and it's not like there are no cis women with dense bones that are tall.
Edit: taken from another comment of mine:
Aren't their trans women who don't take HRT?
That compete in sports? No.
The vast-vast majority of trans women take HRT and many of the ones that don't, don't because of a lack of access.
Makes sense thanks for the explanation. Yea, I figure it's way less common for a trans woman to not want to go the HRT route if they have the ability to, but I know a few must exist.
They do exist and they are just as valid, but they're definitely not the ones competing in sports (plus there are already requirements for trans women to be on HRT before competing in women's leagues)
The word you're looking for is biologically.
Thanks
Trans women aren't biologically men.
How are they not?
Because hrt changes our biological characteristics. I have breasts and a hip curve of a cis woman. The trans man I know is growing hair like a cis man and is getting voice cracks like a pubescent boy.
We're much closer to being intersex than our biological sex
I don't think all trans women take HRT, though, right? I imagine most trans women normally go that route, but not all. Maybe the rules can be changed to specify that trans women can compete in women's sports if they have been on an HRT regiment for long enough, or something.
This makes me wonder, is there anything in place in these sports keeping a cis male from just claiming to be a trans woman to have an unfair advantage? I do hope they find a way to integrate trans women into women's sports, but I think there is some stuff that needs to be ironed out.
There already are requirements for trans women to be taking HRT before competing against women. I believe the current one is 1 year. No cis man would want to take HRT that would cause them to grow boobs so that argument is moot.
Edit: imo 1 year is too soon. From a study I read 2 should be good for endurance sports, and 3-5 should be good for others. It's not right to delay the lives of trans people any further then they're already being delayed and it's not like exceptional cis women don't exist
Plus this all gets solved if we let trans teens transition since these differences happen during puberty
Thanks for clearing that up. I always wondered about the requirements/qualification for that as I don't really follow sports too much, myself.
Those are not the trans people being spoken about I'm sports discussions though. Pretty much every sport that allows, or has previously allowed, trans people to compete in the division fitting their gender has had regulations around HRT and maintaining target hormone levels for a period of time before being allowed to compete.
yes they are.
Sorry if my English is a bit weird. If they have the chromosomes (XY), then yes.
Being a man is not xy chromosomes. It's a social construct normally situated around expressing masculinity in general, with no clear foundation. If you're referring to male/female, this is also a social construct that fails to account for chromosomes outside of the xx/xy chromosome binary.
Hormones are the biggest genuine factor when it comes to sports and transwomen have generally the same athleticism as ciswomen due to HRT; and vice versa with men.
No, chromosomes are not a social construct. They are physical structures in cells that carry genetic information and play a fundamental role in biological processes, including determining an individual's sex. The concept of chromosomes is grounded in biology and genetics, not social constructs.
You can spin it all you want, but women are getting destroyed in sports by transwomen because they have physique of a man like bone structure and muscle mass.
True, they exist in the physical world! But what chromosomes mean to us is indeed a social construct. Who cares what some little dingle in your nucleus says? People who follow socially constructed divisions in society based on this arbitrary physical thing, that's who. 💝
Can you PLEASE share a source for this? No one will source this claim but it keeps getting upvoted
Last time my comment got deleted.. I don't know if it were the link or something else.
Just search for it on YouTube "Five Times Trans Athletes Beat Thousands Of Women In Their Sports"
.... your source is a YouTube video listicle??
EDIT lol it's 3 minutes of text on still images and some of the most transphobic shit
Easy to consume, but why don't you just use search for the names mentioned in the video? 😂
Our conceptualization of chromosomes and how we relate them to being "man" or "woman" is a social construct. This is what I was referring to.
Transwomen are heavily taken out of context by the media in sports and I have yet to see any actual evidence that transwomen shouldnt be allowed in sports for women. Hormones play the most significant factor
Getting first place or breaking records in women's sport suddenly should be clear as day.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/mar/21/transgender-weightlifter-breaks-womens-record/
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/dec/5/transgender-swimmer-lia-thomas-smashes-womens-reco/
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/feb/24/terry-miller-andraya-yearwood-transgender-sprinter/
https://nypost.com/2023/03/30/male-powerlifter-enters-womens-event-breaks-record/
https://nypost.com/2023/11/23/news/trans-swimmer-meghan-cortez-fields-sparks-controversy-after-breaking-nj-college-womens-record/
XY are male right?
So males can give birth according to you
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190741/
That's a "rare" (or should I say "exclusive" since multiple family members have it?) mutation, being like "only XX females can give birth right? Shows link Checkmate transphobes!" isn't really proving anything. It's a genetic mutation.
It's as close to saying "people that can't feel pain are superhumans" when they're usually the opposite and have to live life in fear of constantly hurting themselves, sometimes severely, and being unaware of it.
The point is that chromosomes are clearly not what deterimes sex if a female was born with XY chromosomes. Genetic mutations are a part of life and we literally can't know the percentage of females born with XY without testing literally everyone. Your mom could be XY and you'd never know unless she got tested. So if chromosomes don't determine sex what do? Saying it's a genetic mutation is a thought terminating cliche and allows you to continue living life without thinking deeply on the subject. Which, imo, is pretty anti-science.
Genetic anomalies don't at all make something invalid. Did you know red hair is/was a genetic mutation? Does that make red hair not a hair color?
"There's only black brown and blonde everything else is a genetic mutation"
Of course genetic mutations are a pretty common thing, but some are minor (like your red hair example), some are "WTF? How did that happen?" mutations, and some are straight up deadly like the various forms of cancer.
Women being XX is a classification (?) we've all agreed on because like 99.8% of people with XX chromosomes are women. Mutations are literally something out of the ordinary that shouldn't happen.* A woman shouldn't have XY chromosomes because almost every woman in history that we know of has XX chromosomes*.
Removed for misinformation and transphobia.
Tell me you didn't read the link without telling me you didn't read the link. The case study is from a woman who was born with a vagina and ovaries and gave birth but upon a genetic test was revealed to have XY chromosomes.
(here's the part where you pretend to have read it all along in your response)
Social construct is the separation of gender from sex. In many languages it doesn't even make sense because fe/male is used for animals or wo/men for humans while gender and sex are represented by single word.
This whole argument of "gender vs sex" is ridiculous and always has been. Biology is what matters, not what words you use to refer to yourself or others.
You_irl
I'm definitely not a conservative Republican, far from it. I love how people immediately jump to conclusions on here based on one statement.
I don't give a damn what bathroom you use.
IMO this is like arguing whether a tomato is a fruit or a vegetable.
Trans women and trans men are significantly closer to being intersex.
Probably a biased mod who gets mad whenever a discussion doesn't go their way.
Brand new user totally understands how things work here. Alternatively, recently banmed user totally understands why they got banned. BIASED MODS!!!!!!!!!!!
Simply because there is a huge difference, biologically, between a cisgender man and a transgender women who is on HRT.
You can argue that there is still residual advantages remaining after transition, that's fine. But to call them men is both plainly incorrect, and also offensive.
Hmm I wonder