this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2023
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That's not it going both ways. You shouldn't be allowed to use anyone's IP against the copyright holders wishes. Regardless of size.
Nah all information should be freely available to as many people as practically possible. Information is the most important part of being human. All copyright is inherently immoral.
I'd agree with you if people didn't need to earn money to live. You can't enact communism by destroying the supporters of it. I fully support communism in theory, we should strive for a community based government. I'm also a game developer and when I make things I need to be able to pay my bills because we still live in capitalism.
If copyright was vigorously enforced a lot more people would starve than would be fed
It's already vigorously enforced. Maybe you can expand on what you mean.
Go on etsy search mickey mouse and go report all the hundreds of artists whose whole career is violating the copyright of the most litigious company on the planet.
No, it's about if you make a game that's worse or off-brand. If you make a bunch of Mario games into horror games and then everyone thinks of horror when they think of Mario then good or bad, you've ruined their branding and image. Equally, if you make a bunch of trash and people see Mario as just a trash franchise (like how most people see Sonic games) then it ruins Nintendo's ability to capitalize on their own work.
No one is worried about a fan-made Mario game being better.
Actually we do. If your game is so terrible, it can get removed from the Google Play store. It has to be really bad and they rarely do it. Steam does this as well. Epic avoids this by vetting the games they put on their platform site first. It's why the term asset flip exists.
Sure, that's fair. Either way bad or good, it's illegal to take someone's existing IP and add on to it. Good or bad. No one is legally banning games based on quality and if they were good or bad it doesn't matter. It matters that the original story owner has a vision and they have the right to make money off of their work without other people trying to take or add on to the story themselves. Brand fatigue is a real thing and while all of the CoD games are great and fairly high quality, the reason they get a bad rap is exactly brand fatigue. The Assassin's Creed games were the same for a bit but they resolved that by spreading releases out.
Either way, the arguments to let people just add on to what they want seems to fall flat. Why not just build a universe like Mario and call it Maryo? Or the great giana sisters? Why involve someone else's IP at all? because you are profiting off of the popularity that someone else built with quality products. In even a communist society I'd want that banned because it's lazy, misrepresents the original vision, and overall it's completely avoidable without a problem. In fact, why not force people to create new things instead of letting them be lazy and stealing the popularity of a well-made IP?
This argument doesn't hold water to me. How are you conflating a brand with all games in a genre? IP and brands are a signifier of what to expect. Sherlock Holmes is a great example of what used to be an IP known for a very specific style of mystery story but now just means "genius problem solver maybe with a drug habit."
We are going to just have to agree to disagree. Spiritual successors happen all the time. The reason people make fan games is that there is a lexicon built into their project already. It's a shortcut instead of building (and considering) what is meaningful to your game in a lexicon. Additionally, a lot of people do not consider how their changes affect the lexicon throughout all games. So what you are left with is mostly people who don't truly understand, never talked to the creators, never worked with them, assume everything from a product perspective, pushing out something that adds to the brand without any true coherency or consideration of future titles.
I for one see it as wrong to attempt to take someone's work and not only pass it off as your own but also potentially break their ability to make future iterations of their work.
Perhaps a labor of love. From my initial parsing of reviews, looks like they didn't attempt to change anything but kept close to the source material.
I feel like that's okay. There are plenty of original and better ideas out there. It doesn't prevent things from being made. P-06 being "still terrible but better" doesn't really say anything. The fact that games like Black Mesa, Sonic Media, Skywind, and very specifically Zera: Myths Awaken also exists, a game that started as Spyro 4 and Activision sent a C&D, so they rebranded. These things are easily fixed and honestly, it's great if fans want to attempt to build a game off of someone's IP then ask the IP holder if they can continue with it. If not, they can just rebrand and create their own universe. Temtem is a great example of what happens when people are forced to create their own thing. It becomes more impactful and allows for a more interesting product. Not just a cookie cutter game.
I don't think that's all you have to show. In fact I feel like a lot of your examples have missed the point entirely. The point isn't that there are other ways that could maybe impact the sales or recognition a game gets. This conversation also jumps between copyright and trademark protections. Copyright is about protecting actual assets. You take my assets and make something else with them without my consent, you've stolen my work. That's a bad, immoral thing. Equally ties to the copyright of characters and story. You take the building blocks I've made, you've stolen my work. Trademark is about protecting brand recogniztion and deals with IP violations.
With that covered, the point of copyright is to ensure the people who did the work get paid for their work. That large or small companies don't have to worry about someone stealing their works and allowing them to innovate.
So when you say, whatever people will just make another game in the genre, that's innovation. What if it's bad? Not everything is good, that's still positive innovation. You always mentioned large IPs but the truth is that the law is equal and that large corporations are already taking people's work without asking. We do not need more of that.
For fan made games, there isn't a huge point to do them without the blessing of the IP holder and you might point to large studios vs small fans but think of it in every scale. Especially middle to small studios being stolen from. It's just a fan game doesn't really hold water when it's potentially putting people out of business because of the issues I've already shown. Imagine if copyright wasn't enforced and someone just re-uploaded existing games. Where do you draw a line on the charges a fan game needs to make in order to qualify. I can tell you right now 99% of players wouldn't buy a game on steam if there was another fan game of it exactly but for free. So then you have to draw up all these lines that are frankly unfair to the creators. So just let them choose. Their works belong to them. Not to just people who might like the game.
So I don't see any point for which a looser copyright law would be overall more helpful to society. We need courts to allow for smaller creators to justify fair use but that doesn't cover anything we talked about.
Agreed, we aren't going to see eye to eye if you are thinking owning Mario is equal to owning the whole platforming genre.