this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2023
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I know there's a bit of disconnect by me writing this on an actual social platform, but it's Beehaw - so it's cool.

Lately I've been getting away from Facebook again. I have friends and family on there who are sharing less than savory thoughts. Thoughts of fear, uncertainty, doubt, and even worse: the fettid stench of hatred. I went on there and decided to try and rationalize through status updates, but found myself becoming more frustrated, more angry myself.

I took a break from it the last couple of days and I feel better now. I've shared a couple of articles, but only articles of interests within tech and creativity. I felt like I'm landing a lil bit.

But now I made the mistake of accidentally pressing a notification on my phone... from Twitter (and no, I refuse to call if "X").

I was lead right to a post where some of my countrymen were snarling at a news article where some politicians were praising certain Palestinians who were fighting for their freedom from oppression and apartheid. The thread was full of videos from certain terrorist groups in Palestine unrelated to the actual people being praised, along with irrelevant subjects about battery manufacturing and green energy.

I'd just like to say that despite the crazy things my friends and family have said, even the crazy things I've said, does not have the same pure hatred that I read from that thread. I felt my anxiety bluster up as I mustered the gumption to reply, stating that I wondered why they were sharing videos of people who had suffered apartheid and persecution and blatantly ignoring what the state of Israel has been doing.

I'm now considering just deleting Twitter altogether, as I really don't use it that much. I used it only for a couple of choice accounts from good people who say wholesome things, but I've noticed that their updates don't show up anymore. I feel like Musk is monetising all the worst parts of human behaviour and that scares the ever loving crap out of me.

Say what you will about Facebook, and I'm very critical of Meta and Zuckerberg myself, but doesn't Zuckerberg seem a tad more... adjusted? Even though Facebook has been caught funneling people into extremist echo chambers I don't think I've ever seen anything as bad as what I'm seeing on Twitter right now.

I have friends and family who swear that social platforms in them selves is the source of the toxicity that is found on them, but as we can see on certain federated platforms (with strict CoC's of course) that isn't always the case.

Oh sure, we can talk about dark design patterns, micro dopamine feeding through doom scrolling and attention fishing notifications until the cows come home, but I think we all know that the internet - and by extension social platforms - is a big old mirror we hold up to ourselves.

It's like a reflection into our very minds and we don't like what we're seeing. We scream into the mirror at some imaginary antagonist, a sick and twisted being that stares back in disgust, but all we really are seeing is the reflection of ourselves.

Anyways, no point to all this. Just wanted to get that off my chest. I hope you are doing well and that you are treating yourself kindly.

Thanks for reading.

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[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yea. It’s mirror but one of those bendy ones at a amusement park and with a monochrome tint too , so the image it throws back is one of its own making as much as it is of us. Nature v Nurture basically.

That being said, I’m pretty sure any given online space I’ve seen has always struggled with civility unless it was a community very focused on something relatively objective in the real world.

So I think there’s something to be said against the human capacity to congregate in the very open and free form structures of the internet. Much of our social feedback mechanisms are just taken away.

[–] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m pretty sure any given online space I’ve seen has always struggled with civility unless it was a community very focused on something relatively objective in the real world.

Yep. There have been trolls sice the days of BBS.

For the same reason, angry people want attention, even if it is negative.

The difference between modern social media and old school forums is that on forums, the discussions are the important thing and there was usually a mod who was passionate about keeping things on topic and worked to rein in the trolls.

Where as, as I said in the first comment, on social media engagement/serving adds is the driving goal. Add in the fact that the sheer scale of things like fb and twitter make moderation basically impossible, so in time the angry troll win out.

[–] taanegl@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I don't really believe that my friends and family wish anyone harm. I do believe however that they, like most people, have had their impulse control thrashed by modern media. I'd go so far as to say it started with the radio, then films, then TV and finally the internet. An escalating curve whereby people allow themselves to become impressionable if the setting is right.

Media is a double edged sword and I don't really think we've learned to live responsibly with it yet. The same people who find drug use degenerative and that all drug use is drug abuse are them selves most likely victims of their own weakened impulse control, which is the psychological rabbit hole modern psychiatry starts with when discussing and analyzing drug abuse.

The easy answers we crave, the antagonists we seek.

[–] frog@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’d go so far as to say it started with the radio, then films, then TV and finally the internet. An escalating curve whereby people allow themselves to become impressionable if the setting is right.

It's older than that. Back when the printing press was first invented, allowing books to be printed en masse (and thus becoming cheap and accessible to a wider range of people), there were accusations that too much access to knowledge was dangerous, because the average person was too impressionable and would get bad ideas. Go back even further, to when books were first invented and people could use them instead of relying on their own memories, and the same complaints were made: people would read a book and use that to decide what's right, instead of using their own judgement. In fact all the same things people say now about social media, the internet, TV, and computer games... used to be said about books.

The truth is that some people have always been prone to listening to people that they shouldn't. Some people are lonely or frightened, and they want someone "strong and wise" to tell them it'll be okay. The only thing that's changed is that in the past, how far those "strong and wise" voices could spread was limited. Then books allowed them to spread their views further. Then radio further still. Then TV. Then the internet.

It's easy to blame the media. Easier than it is to look at ourselves and ask why some people want simple black-and-white solutions to complex problems. It's easier because we probably can't solve the problem. Emotions like fear are hard-wired, and humans, being social animals, are also hard-wired to look to their social group for solutions. It'd be nice to think that better education is the answer, but I'm not sure it is, because humans now are better educated than they've been at any point in history, and yet those who are frightened or lonely still look to the biggest, toughest looking caveman who promises that he can fix the weather by bashing some other caveman over the head with a club.

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

humans now are better educated than they’ve been at any point in history,

I really wonder how true this is, at least relative to the amount of things we need people to be educated for. I would suspect we’ve got high levels of production line education without too much quality at least of the relevant kind.

[–] frog@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

In previous times, the overall quality of the education may have been higher, in terms of teaching critical thinking and so on, but accessibility was limited to a tiny handful. The fact that the majority revived little to no education at all really drags the average down.

The real issue isn't a lack of education, anyway. No matter how good the school, no matter what is on the curriculum, if a kid is going to school hungry, hurt, or afraid, they're not going to learn much. People think of education as the answer because better education is correlated with higher wealth and security. It's also poverty and insecurity that leads to the fear, loneliness, and desperation that makes people susceptible to populism. Deal with poverty, make sure everyone has a decent life with a secure source of food, housing, etc, and a lot of other problems go away.

[–] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’d just like to say that despite the crazy things my friends and family have said, even the crazy things I’ve said, does not have the same pure hatred that I read from that thread.

I don’t really believe that my friends and family wish anyone harm.

That's the problem, we don't want to see hate arise from people we love.

So we make excuses for them, "That's is not the real them, media is the problem"

We will blame anything but the people we love.

Since they are warm and loving towards us we cannot/will not accept that they can be that towards us and yet say/believe things like this towards others.

[–] taanegl@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

One continuous issue I've come across is how your environment, your surroundings, your inputs and your outputs define you. Social paranoia doesn't necessarily need to come from a nefarious source, but it can be cultivated and people can be indoctrinated.

People in bad situations can do bad things. This is what I'd call a universal truth.

I also don't believe in good or evil, so the good vs evil dynamic means nothing to me. I do believe in delusion, self-delusion, egomania, etc. I don't believe hatred is a source of an issue. Anger issues is definitely a thing and is also symptomatic.

I'm not even sure I believe in the concept of hatred anymore. Maybe using that word was a mistake.