this post was submitted on 16 Sep 2023
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Jesus y'all. Let me spell this out plainly.
BLM is a political organization.
Wearing BLM gear is a political statement.
Whole Foods doesn't want employee uniforms to make a political statement.
Bet every single person here would be pleased if this was about banning Trump masks. I'll give you a crisp $20 bill if those are allowed. Or any other sort of political speech.
The fact that there is an organization of the same name does not mean they own the slogan. People using the slogan almost never do so in reference to this organization nor are necessarily even aware that such an organization exists.
BLM is more of a human rights statement. Anything is "political" if the right choses to whine about it. An example is putting pronouns on name tags. It's a great idea to ensure employees are addressed correctly and frankly shouldn't be any more political than a name tag containing your name, but the right choses to view them as political because they need a constant culture war.
This might mean something if "BLM" was owned by an organization.
So Black Lives Matter is not a political slogan, let alone an organization? Saying Black Lives Matter means nothing to anyone except by taking it literally? Nothing to do with politics whatsoever?
By that metric any opinion is political.
You only think it's political because conservatives don't like it.
The statement Black Lives Matter is not political, you absolute ham sandwich..
On its own it's not, but it definitely is in the current political and cultural context. There's no getting away from that. It's going to provoke a political reaction in any conservative and there's no point in pretending otherwise.
That's an indictment of Conservatism. What are they trying to Conserve and when was America great? Cause it was not great for folks of color or queer folk back then, and we wont go back.
I can and do agree with everything you argue while also maintaining the objectively obvious fact that context matters in politics.
The statement itself shouldn't be political in its sentiment, but obviously the organization exists and it has its own policy positions, events, advocacy, and I can go to their website to donate. I think it's fairly obvious which one Whole Foods would be concerned with.
Ah, so if I wear a hat at work that says "save babies" and then an organization pops up called "Save babies" and they start donating to politicians, should I no longer be allowed to wear my "Save Babies" hat?
Yup
If the company you're representing would prefer you didn't, then sure.
Let's use another example, if someone was a big supporter of fascism and was wearing a hat or mask that said, "save fascists", would you prefer the store couldn't prevent them from wearing that?
How bad would the phrase have to get to change your mind?
I'd say the difference comes down to choice. You choose to be a fascist. You choose to be a trump supporter. You don't choose to be black. You don't chose to be an infant.
Examples. If you wore a SPLC clothing article, I think the employer would be allowed to object, but if you wore clothing showing support for women, or indigenous people, then they should abide it.
So you deny that BLM is a political org?
They sure seem to be calling for political action.
https://blacklivesmatter.com/
Having a just cause does not make a movement apolitical. Agreeing with that cause does not make the statement apolitical.
You seem to have your emotions mixed up with facts. And here I thought that was a conservative trait.
While I would agree that it is political, it's because it is a movement and has become political. The organization was created after the movement and does not necessarily reflect the will or intentions of the actual movement. It's like if back in the day there was an org called Women's Suffrage. It doesn't mean the focus of all people who want women's suffrage are part of an organization named that after the movement started.
Women's suffrage is probably the worst example you could have chosen -- in what way is fighting for the right to vote not inherently political?
I was saying that BLM is a political movement. It's not necessarily an organization.
I refer you to Skunk Anansie, though.
https://youtu.be/mcaUer4fuU8?si=b8g5NIuCk3-1w2AT
Then neither is "Make America Great Again"
That's multiple candidates campaign slogans. It's was a Republican presidential slogan in 64 and 80, very famously part of Reagan's campaign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_America_Great_Again
This is like saying "Trump has Little Hands" is a political organization because some guy wants to copyright "Trump has Little Hands" to sell on merch. Absolutely ridiculous take and it clearly show where you stand on these sorts of issues.
Let me spell it out plainly:
You are really jumping through some hoops to prove that the saying, "Black Lives Matter" has nothing to do with politics. Say it out loud for us. Say it's not a slogan and has no ties to political views.
Not accepting facts contrary to your position? How very conservative of you.
No matter how far left I am, there's always assholes like you pushing people back to the right. I'm not going right because a bunch a angry teenagers are... angry. But you're not doing the liberal cause any justice here. In fact, you're actively hurting it.
Are you saying black lives don't matter?
Where is the debate on the statement "black lives matter"? Please argue against that statement.
No what you're saying is that the statement has been politicized by bad actors. But those are the politics of the bad actors, not politics around the statement itself.
Should the depiction of the Earth as being round be banned as well? There is controversy around that, by idiots and grifters of course, but how is it different about the controversy around BLM?
Surely you share the same opinion about those who wear gear that says "All lives matter"? They're just good people preaching a message of love?
Maybe I would if I bash my head into a wall enough to cause enough brain damage that I don't understand that "all lives matter" is part of the politicization effort by bad actors.
See there is an actual real world where people did things with motives that are very well understood. If your "logical" arguments are completely dependent on ignoring specific realities, it's not really a logical argument at all. Demanding someone ignore reality so you can have a big "aha! I proved you to be a hypocrite!" kind of moment is rather silly isn't it?
So you only bashed your head enough to not understand that the phrase "Black Lives Matter" is borne out of a social/political movement?
Are you saying all lives don't matter?
Where is the debate on the statement "all lives matter"? Please argue against that statement.
You are arguing in bad faith. BLM came out of police brutality targeting predominantly black communities. Period. End of story. If you don't understand that, that's because you're willfully ignorant of the world happening around you.
Are you lost? That's exactly what I'm saying...
All lives literally can’t matter if you’re already excluding some in that, that’s the whole point of Black Lives Matter you doofus.
Remember, Black people count as people too, and as long as their lives don’t matter as much then the saying, “All lives matter” is false. Because if you cared about all lives, then you’d be caring about the black lives that are disproportionately harmed and murdered.
And one only needs to take a look at society here in America to see the black lives are treated way worse than white lives. Nearly all facets of our society have some built-in racism whether you’re just going to the hospital with chest pains or trying to buy or sell your house. You’re gonna get worse quality of everything just because of your skin color and that’s verifiable fact.
And yet all they want you to do is recognize that they’re being killed at a much higher rate than other people, and want you to care about that. And for some reason that triggers you so.
Saying all lives matter, and believing that is like having a life raft on a boat, and seeing some people drowning, but you decided to throw the life raft to the people at a table, eating shrimp. You know, because all lives matter. Black Lives Matter is just recognizing the drowning people and trying to help them.
You're lost -- I'm not defending the All Lives Matter mantra.
I'm pointing out that Black Lives Matter isn't merely a benign statement of fact, it's a statement borne out of a social/political movement. Which you obviously agree with, based on what you wrote out.
No. Because they are in bad faith inverting the wording of the phrase to sound like "muh common sense" but in reality are just reactionary contrarians that are communicating their social conservative opinions.
Saying Black Lives Matter is only political to right wing racists who believe that the status quo, that Black Lives Don't Matter, is fine.
So it's political then? Just because one side of the spectrum has heinous beliefs does not make a thing non-political.
It’s both because one side wants it to be to diminish its power. But at its core it’s a human rights issue. It’s the words Black Lives Matter, strange if you get upset hearing that and think it’s purely political and should be snuffed out where you don’t like facing it. 🤔
If this thing was a fight to wear "Make America Great Again!" masks, these people would sing a different tune. And some ass will be along to explain how that's totally different...
The whole notion of BLM is political. In the same sense that no one denies making America great is a bad thing, no one denies black lives matter. Yet they are political slogans, end of story. Whole Foods does not want employees wearing controversial political slogans.
I've supported the idea of BLM from day 1. Even dumped a right-wing buddy I was slowly turning around. I have zero patience for the haters. Zero. But if I owned a business, employees would not be wearing anything that even smelled of politics.
These children can't get their emotions untied from facts.