this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2023
235 points (100.0% liked)
Politics
10176 readers
180 users here now
In-depth political discussion from around the world; if it's a political happening, you can post it here.
Guidelines for submissions:
- Where possible, post the original source of information.
- If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
- Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
- Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
- Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
- Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
Subcommunities on Beehaw:
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I partially blame the Left for not addressing mental health issues for our younger boys and men and not doing a better job at expressing what healthy, happy masculinity actually looks like. So the likes of Andrew Taint, Joe Rogan, Matt Walsh and the likes basically swooped in and took that over.
I've got a 15 year old nephew who's starting his Sophomore year in like a week. I've already heard him say some rather disturbing extremist right-wing shit, and sadly his father fucking sucks at being a father so correcting him hasn't been easy for me (I'm the aunt, his mother is not currently in the picture). And he says this shit with his little sister around too.
It's not the fault of the left that the right creates propaganda.
Propaganda is really effective on everyone and they've had the help of algorithms that boost anger inducing material which leads one from "self help" alpha jerk all the way to "the left are demons that want to kill babies."
It's not the fault of anyone other than the propagandists. :/
That's not what they're saying, they're saying- very correctly- that whereas the Right has cultivated a pipeline for reaching out to young men via these propagandists, the Left has not. We're largely ceding the conversations about young male disaffection to those kinds of Right-wing assholes who tell them it's the fault of the Left.
Vaush, for example, is not a good resource for someone who's just some awkward high school kid who knows nothing about politics. He's not speaking to that kid's concerns, he's ranting (very justifiedly, but that's irrelevant) about the manosphere. If you look at the videos by the manosphere, they're trying to touch on points of interest to young men as a group. If you look at the Left-wing YTers, they're talking to people who already dislike the manosphere: "Conservatives don't understand Manga or Anime" (Tim Poole) vs "This incel video is pathetic" (Vaush).
I think a key problem is that for many of us on the Left, it's very difficult to understand (or believe) that someone could look at what right-wingers are doing and not care, so we think it's just an issue of exposure. What we forget is that they have to click on the video/ article/ podcast first, before they get exposed to the content, and right-wingers are sitting there putting out the exact opposite stuff about the Left ("Watch these crazy liberal college feminists getting owned by Ben!") To someone who is disconnected, it does look like it's just 2 equal sides ranting about each other.
So if I don't know who Andrew Tate is, I'm not going to click on a video about why he's bad.
But manga and anime? I love those! I'll click on that. "Why young men feel like no one cares?" I'm an angsty young man, I'll watch that! Then that video leads to the "Why Socialism is Destroying America!" one, and down the rabbit hole they go.
Right. While I feel for what OP has said, it's like the right can be as nasty as they want to be while it's the left that's charged with picking up the pieces. I don't know what the answer is but it can't be let the right do and say whatever.
Because the right does such a good job addressing male mental health?
Maybe his parents (you and his dad I suppose) should monitor who he follows on social media a bit better?
It's not that they are good at addressing it, they're they only group that vocally addresses it at all.
Young white men are a group, a large group, in the US and when then ONLY people saying "hey its okay to be YOU SPECIFICALLY YOUNG WHITE MAN", their social media algorithms tend to lean toward that.
I'm pretty liberal because of my own life experiences, and my youtube feed is just filled to the brim with Andrew Tate, Walsh, Shapiro, Peterson, Jones, etc. I happen to find Jor Rogan funny and that's about the furthest right I go, but because of that I'm can't not open youtube and be subjected with this type of content that, more or less, targets my demographic.
Personally, I see it as a grift. To me, these people are just making money selling bullshit by the bulk, and young white men happen to both have money and no other 'pick me' iconography.
I've dealt with suicidal ideation and mental health problems all my life, and Peterson comes on and tells me it's okay to feel emotions, but then immediately starts talking about how trans people will never be happy and should never try to transition. I'm pretty cognitive and can see its more or less book sales for him and he's talking about an experiences he's never had, but a 15 year old isn't quite as cognitive nor has had the same level of life experience as my age group
The left is why kids aren't working in factories. The right and center have done everything to keep us from remembering that fact.
If you want role models on the left there's plenty of them. You just won't find them as easily on YouTube.
Yes, but there aren't figure heads targeting this demographic with a specific rhetoric/ideology.
When they teach it in school about kids working in coal mines and meat factories, they don't teach the politics that went along with it.
No, unfortunately they don't teach it.
I didn't really understand it until I read The People's History of the U.S. a few decades later.
I would love it if his father bothered to put in effort in raising my eldest nephew, but that isn't going to happen sadly.
And I never insinuated the right was doing a good job???
Well you blamed the left when honestly that's about two people in Congress, the liberals are centrists whose job it is to keep another general strike from happening.
Why not blame the right? They're the ones literally pushing toxic shit on our kids and wanting to start child labor back up.
I sure as hell don't blame the left. Without the left my kid and your nephew would be working in a mine or factory. And you and I would still be working 80 hours a week to survive.
You completely misunderstood my original post, and from the looks of it, you're doing it on purpose. Bye.
You literally blamed the left for your kid not getting mental health care. Was the first thing you said yet I misunderstood?
Yeah, good riddance lady.
... what's wrong with Joe Rogan? The traditional media has smeared him because they don't like that CNN plus shat the bed and they're sad about it.
He's just a 'normal' dude. The fact that you put him in with he likes of Andrew Tate, or Peppa Pig fame, says a lot about what you've been led to believe.
I'm not a big fan of Rogan, but I don't dislike either, I'm just not a podcast person very often. The guy just has conversations with all kinds of people.
I think the main issue with Rogen is that while he provides a platform for voices across the political/social spectrum (which is great), he does very little to challenge his guests and generally goes with the flow. This means that people making false claims or dog whistle statements are being taken at face value alongside people making good faith arguments, which grants those bad actors some amount of undeserved authenticity.
So no, he is not nearly as bad as Andrew Tate etc; but he has a lot of exposure and clout that he does not always bring to bear in the name of true and honest discussion. Also the whole RFK debate thing is really poignant here as it's a typical example of taking two "balanced" perspectives on vaccines and assuming that they both deserve to be at the same table, when in reality the anti vax movement largely gets by without any scientific evidence and isn't a reasonable position to hold.
Seriously? https://sopuli.xyz/post/1806608
Rogan is a dumbshit winger troll.
Lol wow.