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Tbh, for me, I’m realizing it’s triggering a sort of sea-change in terms of how I, as a citizen, want to interact with American society.
Laws, ethics, human dignity and empathy clearly aren’t important to people here. Money and power are. This is fully incongruent with my personal beliefs in a variety of fundamental ways. I’ve tried to aim my career at areas that are going to help better society - that’s a big part of why I work at an oncology-focused biotech now. But like… I’m faced with the realization that this country just doesn’t share my values, and doesn’t actually care that I willingly take markedly less compensation than, say, working at Meta, and it’s primarily because I want to make the world a better place.
I admit it’s starting to feel like an abusive relationship. I don’t think the world is going to become a better place in my lifetime. It’s going to get a lot worse in a lot of ways. My initial reaction was to begin taking steps to just fully fuck off from this country, and find someplace else with a society that hasn’t fully eaten itself. Try to keep my sanity and ethics in one piece by finding a new society to call home that’s not America.
But I ALSO have begun to realize in the last couple days that there’s another darker path I could take that denys the society I’ve honestly come to resent pretty strongly the my true capabilities and abusive consumption of my efforts: Malicious compliance. I could just fully jettison my ethical guidelines and engineering principles and simply min/max the absolute fuck out of comp and just retire early. Work for Meta or OpenAI or some health insurance company or whatever the fuck is the absolute most lucrative job I can find and just fully shoot for leadership metrics, not really fucking caring about the toxicity of the management class, the morale or well being of my team, the impact my work has on society, the quality, reliability, and integrity of the code I ship, or any of that ivory tower crap I’ve previously held as crucial elements to my profession. Stop trying to move the needle in the right direction. All gas, no brakes. If this country is determined to not give a fuck, why should I? Why shouldn’t I try to get to a place in my career where I can just retire, or do whatever I want without worrying too much about the personal consequences, because I can just fuck off at my own discretion due to money?
And the second, darker option has the added benefit that I wouldn’t have to essentially abandon my family here, who are definitely not considering moving away as seriously as I am. My parents are both not in the best of health; maybe I should try to at least spend some more time closer to them before I just fuckin leave - or at least, as long as I can stand it here before the “fuck off and leave” route is truly the only viable option.
America is dead to me. As a European, I already had a pretty negative view of the states, I especially hate the worse parts of American culture that seep in into our lives, since sniffing US ass is what we do best apparently. But now, what makes America any better than let's say Russia? The fact that people have running water at home? America doesn't even have a human rights committee! This moment for ever changes how I see Americans, a sort of no way back. It's a nation of bloodthirsty traitors! Blessings and good luck to anybody who still has a hint of normalcy in them. May you one day rebirth your country as a force for good once again.
Please do not make us a monolith. I am not my country, I was just born here. That kind of thinking leads to radicalism and violence. I can perfectly understand caution with “unknowns” from a group you have reason to be concerned about. Honestly from a personal safety standpoint we do this all the time. But to unilaterally decide we are all one thing and write us off (or worse) is false and dangerous.
I don’t know where you are in Europe but I love the continent and have visited many countries there. I do my best to be respectful when I visit and look up local cultures and norms so I don’t stand out and be “that American.” I’m not ashamed of being an American tourist, but I don’t want to adhere to the worst of our stereotypes. If other countries’ people decide we are inherently dangerous, being annoying may be the least of my worries should I have the fortune of making another trip there.
I'm sorry to let my emotions spill out... It's just... It's hard to describe how fucking angry it makes me, that the country we bend over backwards for, the self proclaimed beacon of freedom and liberty, is now the beacon of rape and war! My only hope is that Trump is so exceptionally egotistical, that getting his dick sucked from every nation will result in his indecisiveness when it comes to taking firm sides. And that we finally start standing on our own two feet...
And why? Because the average American voter is too sexist to elect a woman? Or maybe because the only two parties are pathological liars aiming to satisfy their sponsors vs literal rabies infested monsters? Or maybe voters really don't look at what candidates are actually saying. It doesn't matter what the reason is, but America as a country mustn't be relied upon.
You have a known and confirmed rapist, convicted felon and Russian collaborator elected as president...AND OVERWHELMINGLY SO!?! If Trump's presidency turns out anything like Project2025 or continues down the "Russin/North Korea is our friend, gotta kill the enemy within" route, we might very well have another great war on our hands.
As an American, it’s hard to describe how fucking angry and aghast I am at both my countrymen and our one not-overtly-fascist party. I’m right there with you.
I understand (from my American perspective of course). I live in a swing state in the U.S. that went for Trump. I have the same fears and can only hope if war results from us that it is kept within the borders of this country. Obviously I would prefer violence not be the end result regardless.
Please just know that there are many many people here that are just as concerned and fearful as you are. The people I know that voted for him are either woefully uneducated or are misled by their religion (which in and of itself is a form of ignorance/being uneducated). And while they can still be dangerous, the true fascist zealots are still a minority.
I cannot excuse the people here who voted for this, at this point all I can say is that I am a human, you are a human. I don’t want you to hurt, I’m pretty darn sure you don’t want me to hurt. Let’s do our best to separate this fucking mess from the individual humans who are stuck in it and on the periphery of it, and hope to hell none of us become collateral damage.
I'm feeling the same mostly. I don't make as much money as you, but I'm ok because I don't have kids and I'm in a low COL area. Which means I travel much of the time and leave my wife undefended. She is open to getting a pistol and learning. I'm getting a rifle. We can't leave because her mom is elderly and will not leave. Hell we've just got her convinced to move 20 miles to live with us.
Once her mom lives out her life we will have options. We can see how bad it plays out. I want to move to Uruguay or Costa Rica badly.
Good luck to you, friend. I hope you and your family can stay safe.
When I have gone through this thought process lately, I’ve concluded that even if I plan my life in the most cold robotic way possible, my mental health and general well-being are at their best when I am compassionate towards those around me.
So first you must ask yourself what your true goal is. Do you want to “win” some shallow materialistic version of life? Or do you want to help others, or just be happy regardless of what it takes? Then that helps inform later decisions.
My automatic assumption has always been that saving everything, retiring early, and being a recluse was my path to a happy existence. It’s just what I felt I wanted to do. I bet I’m not alone there.
But then I had the great luck to have COVID come around and fuck up my career and finances in a few different ways. Now I’m stable again at work and my finances are a disaster, but I’ve waded through so much shit mentally that even though big retirement account balances feel great, that’s not what creates real joy, contentment, and even optimism.
…In my brain anyway. It’s like we all have slightly different owners manuals but we don’t get a copy of it and have to reverse-engineer it. In my case I had some things I cared about a lot get torn away, but I still had my family, and I realized that without that stuff that got taken away I was still the same person and was just fine. That definitely flipped a switch or two. Well, that and a grueling couple years dialing in medications, lol. Anything that helps!
I do understand what you’re saying. But at the same time, the foundation of the premise you’re presenting begs the question “do I still consider this society worth saving”? And quite frankly, I can no longer give an unambiguous “yes” to that question. THAT is what I mean when I say the result of this election has made my sense of misanthropy spin wildly out of control.
Oh yeah I get that. The disbelief and disappointment are off the charts for me.
But to continue my train of thought, what’s worked well for my mental state is to give myself permission to focus on the small scale and those close to me rather than (justifiably) dwelling on the fucked up state of society at large.
So instead of worrying about whether society is worth saving, I worry about whether my own sanity is worth saving, and by extension whether it is worth trying to have a happy and fulfilling life. And that’s not just being selfish. It’s equivalent to putting on your own oxygen mask on an airplane before you help others. With my head on straight, I can help improve the lives of those around me, and that is not only worth it but feeds back into making my own life and mental state better.
And from time to time I also like to remind myself about how insane it is that we even exist, that clouds of matter formed billions of years ago in supernovae were able to coalesce and form self-aware brains. It just makes me more interested in learning about existence and the universe.
And when I point that attitude towards the fucked up things in society and the world, it certainly doesn’t make those things better. I think about how I am watching significant history being written, and I can at least be an engaged witness even if I can’t change the course of that history. Though I do try where I can, and of course vote accordingly.
That’s a really healthy and rational way to unpack the situation. I’ll have to give it some more thought. For what it’s worth, thank you for sharing that.
I appreciate the reply. Thanks for the discussion!
I originally wanted to do what you've done, but eventually fell on the idea that the country is essentially beyond saving. Should this hold true, the best option then is to join a grassroots movement and begin building an alternative economy from the ground up as a ready replacement for the collapse of the current system. Join a socialist organization, work for a land trust, start building cooperatives and alternative food systems, etc.