this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2024
103 points (99.0% liked)
Gaming
30483 readers
319 users here now
From video gaming to card games and stuff in between, if it's gaming you can probably discuss it here!
Please Note: Gaming memes are permitted to be posted on Meme Mondays, but will otherwise be removed in an effort to allow other discussions to take place.
See also Gaming's sister community Tabletop Gaming.
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Live information from the earth like weather and other data. If its raining in your city, then it will be raining in the game at this place too. Plus the game does not have all other data anyway, because entire earth is too big for your drive.
It's not weather, it's terrain and textures. It's a high resolution stream of where you are flying over so you don't need to keep the earth on your PC. The base install is supposed to be only ~30GB data, that's not enough to see your house.
It's dumb. I'd much rather have a 500GB install. They might as well just make the game a streaming service. It also ensures an early death for the game and no functionality without an internet connection.
How are you going to fit two petabytes of data into a 500 gigabyte install?
No one said anything about 2PB.
That's how big this game world is.
Where did that number come from?
It's mentioned here: https://www.flightsimulator.com/msfs2024-preorder-now-available/
Ah well, that does make more sense then. I hope they have an offline mode as well.
Also it seems like they'd be better off making it a game streaming service entirely and that would remove the need for all that bandwidth...
FS 2020 had an offline mode. I don't see why this one wouldn't have one as well. It's either using procedurally generated or cached data.
You can not get the same visual fidelity and low latency with game streaming. I've tried nearly every service there is (going as far back as OnLive - remember that one?) and they are all extremely subpar, including Microsoft's own game streaming service.
FS 2020 is available for streaming, by the way, and FS 2024 is likely going to be as well. You're only getting the console version though. Officially, the resolution is "up to" 1080p, but due to extremely heavy compression, it looks far worse than that. It's comparable to 720p at best, which means that nearly all fine detail is lost behind huge compression artifacts. On anything larger than a smartphone screen, it looks horrible. That's on top of connection issues and waiting times that are still plaguing this service.
But...that's what you're doing? Streaming the game at 180mbps...
You're just keeping some of the data local (presumably "the game" itself and probably plane models and cabins) and streaming the terrain data.
That sounds like a great reason not to buy this game.
No. Map and weather data is being streamed, cached on your SSD and then the game engine loads it from there into RAM and uses it in combination with other locally stored data and locally performed physics calculation to render the game on your machine. You get an uncompressed, high quality image and low-latency input, freshly baked by your graphics card for your eyes only. At 1080p and 60 fps, that's already 2.98 Gbit/s per second generated by your GPU and sent to the screen as is. At 1440p, we are at 5.31 Gbit/s and at 4K, 11.94 Gbit/s. DisplayPort can handle up to 20 Gbit/s per lane and use up to four lanes, by the way.
Xbox Cloud Streaming only uses up to 20 Mbit/s (and that's very optimistic). At the advertised 1080p, this means that only 6.7% as much data as generated on the server is reaching your screen.
The problem with game streaming is that in order to limit latency, they have to compress the image and send it very quickly, 60 times per second, which means they have just 16.7 milliseconds for each frame - and do this for potentially millions of users at the same time. This cannot physically be done at any decent level of quality. It is far easier to send much larger amounts of map data that is not time critical: It doesn't matter if it's even a few seconds late on your machine, since the game engine will render something with the data it already has. At worst, you get some building or terrain pop-in, whereas if even a single of the 60 frames required for direct game streaming is being dropped, you'll immediately notice it as stuttering.
If you don't have the hardware to play this game locally, then I would not recommend it. If you have - and a base Xbox Series S is enough for a reasonable experience, which costs just 300 bucks new or about half as much used - then there is no reason for using the streaming service, unless you absolutely have to play it on your phone at work.
I don't understand any of this. I'll have to take your word for it. Thanks for the explanation.
I don't think requiring online functionality is the death knell of a game in the year 2024. Personally, I'm excited. Their servers were so damn slow to download on initial install and I hated MSFS2020 taking up a quarter of my game drive.
I 100% disagree. Any game that requires connection to a remote server for single player functionality is dead to me. And any suggestion otherwise I take personal offense to.
This makes your local game dependent on someone else's server. That someone else, at any time, can shut down that server with zero consequences. They can change the terms of the deal, with zero consequences. Their servers may unintentionally go down or experience other technical issues, depriving you of the product you paid for, with zero consequences. Also you simply cannot use it away from an internet connection.
You are at the mercy of the provider, who has absolutely no legal obligations to you.
And you can't see why that would be a massive problem while trying to livestream your game from their server?
Only the installs were slow. Terrain streaming worked just fine right from the start (I played it from day one) - and once it's cached on your machine, they can shut down the servers all they want, it's still on your machine.
Were you streaming at 180mbps?
That's not how cache works.
More than that, actually. I measured well over 250 over large cities. Others have reported more than 300.
In this case, it does. The cache for this simulator is a disk cache - and it's completely configurable. You can manually designate its size and which parts of the world it'll permanently contain. There's also a default rolling cache (also on SSD - this program doesn't even support hard drives), which does get overwritten over time.
Interesting that they're able to maintain such speeds for streaming map data but not downloads...
It doesn't, in any case. Cache is, by definition, temporary.
The CDN to download the initial files were slow, the in game streaming was fine.
Yes, ownership sucks these days, but I don't know how they'd technically pull this off as well without using a remote server. As a philosophy, if we're purchasing games the only real choice is GoG, anything else ends up with us locked into some server-based licensing system.
You sorta glossed over this part.
I didn't gloss over anything. It simply makes no sense. The Earth is not a digital object.
How… do you think we represent physical objects digitally? Vibes?
No one said anything about a digital representation. I can draw Earth in MS Paint and it's like 1mb.
If your point is that it has a high resolution digital image of the Earth, just say that.
But my point still stands. I'd still rather have a 500GB local install instead of all the problems that come with game streaming.
We shouldn’t have to say that at this point, my initial reply already conveyed that information.
I understand the gripe with it though, they have the option to download areas ahead of time.
(Though it’s probably a one-time download, with models and textures cached for later use)
You sorta glossed over the part where I described how and why your reply was nonsense.
My first reply said it was streaming high-res data from the cloud. Considering it’s a flight simulator advertising to cover the entire world, most people would intuit that would include textures and 3d models.
I’m not going to sit here and argue with you, have a nice day.