Oh hey, also the same thing with environmental issues
this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2024
1220 points (96.9% liked)
Lefty Memes
4134 readers
672 users here now
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, upvoting good contributions and downvoting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such,
as well as condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
7. Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
(This is not a definitive list, the spirit of the other rules still counts! Eventual duplicates with other rules are for emphasis.)
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Your solution is literally just "give money"? That only works in some instances, where a person is struggling because of bad luck or whatever, but has a desire to improve their situation. But if they are a substance abuser or are mentally ill, money isn't going to help like housing would, since they either don't know what to do with it, or they prioritize drugs over shelter.
And most cases of substance abuse come from people living in a society with no community and no safety nets. Even if you give everyone a thousand bucks a month but society is stil hell, it solves very little.
Yeah it's not like there is one problem and one solution. Some turn to drugs to escape their situation or because they have bad coping mechanisms, while others get into drugs and their life falls apart because of it.
Theres a difference between homelessness and poverty.
Yes, and they require different solutions. UBI is an attempt to solve poverty, but won't do much for homelessness.
9 times out of 10, people are poor simply because they are poor, not because of some moral failing on their part. But instead we tell ourselves comforting lies that they must have done something wrong. We tell ourselves this because as long as we don't do those wrong things, we don't end up poor or homeless.
In truth, all that is necessary to be homeless is for the cost of housing to rise above the market value of your skill set. That is all. Or a severe illness is all that's really required.
I don't think it's so much a moral failing, but one of privilege in the form of being raised in a stable family, having positive role models and being taught basic life skills. If your parents weren't around to teach you these things or if you were preoccupied with survival as a kid, then you are not equipped to thrive in life. Through no fault of your own. Had you been taught some of these things, then you could be self sufficient. Of course illness, changing job markets, rental costs, inflation, and so on can impact a person's situation as well, but these can be semi reasonably planned for as well, if you know how.
I'd say with those people you just need to give the money to a care giver instead of directly to the person... But it's still just giving money without making them jump through all kinds of dehumanizing hoops
Yeah that or provide housing and help for their addiction or mental issues. Money doesn't help them at all. People need shelter and food more than they need money. Money is just a means to store value and make transactions, and in their case, those transactions are food and shelter, so why not provide those first? It doesn't help to give the societal currency if you aren't equipped to exist in that society anyway.
I mean... Money can be traded for shelter and food.
Yeah but the point is if you don't know how to spend it responsibly, then what good is it? If you spend it on drugs or alcohol because that's more important to you than shelter, which is the case for serious addicts, then it doesn't help you. Instead it only enables your addiction and keeps you on the street.
Yeah... Then they'd need someone helping them with their money I guess. If I had a magic wand I'd make all substances legal but manufacture and sales strictly controlled by the government... When someone gets to the point where the addiction is so bad they'd choose substance over housing or food, offer them free housing and all the drugs they want for free, but the housing is a special community just for that, with like therapists and nurses galore. When they're ready to stop using move them to the recovery community... Still free housing but also start reintroducing them to alternative activities besides drugs... All of this would require a shit ton of money though... And right now that money is almost all going to the pharma companies for their alternative drugs that never actually get people off drugs
In general the concept sounds ok, but I think the reality would make it a death camp since many of those drugs are so addictive that you simply won't break free on your own, without being forced to quit.
If they want to be forced that should be an option too... But so should the option of continuing to use until it kills you... but even then we should do our best to keep them as healthy and comfortable as possible because in the long run it costs society less that way and it's easier to get out of when they decide to
I don't think you are doing drug addicts any favors by letting them continue to use. Their life is better without that addiction and a healthy society would help them as much as possible and feasible. I'm all for personal freedom, but I don't view addiction as being free.
Addiction isn't freedom... But the only way to beat it is for that person to choose to fight it themselves... Until they make that choice we're just wasting time, energy, and money trying to force them to
Yeah they have to want to or it won't work.
The entire body of research on "housing first" disproves this classist bullshit. You are literally doing the exact thing OP is talking about. People HAVE done the research and found that giving people housing is the most effective way to help people. It is the most effective way to help people with drug addictions.
Most people do drugs because there is something objectively terrible about their lives. If you had to sleep on the sidewalk, wouldn't you want to get high all day? If you say no, you're delusional.
I'm confused. It sounds like you are disagreeing with me, but basically reworded exactly what I said.
bUt SoMeTiMeS
Yes, sometimes, you moron. Did you have anything of value to add to the conversation or is that the extent of your contribution?
https://youtu.be/GiYO1TObNz8