this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2024
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To clarify, the pictured poster Caroline Kwan is an ally, not a TERF. The TERFs referred to in the title are the ones ‘protecting a very specific idea of what a woman is’

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[–] eleitl@lemm.ee 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (47 children)

You seem to be unaware of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disorders_of_sex_development issues, particularly 46,XY DSD in competitive female sports.

[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (44 children)

Can you elaborate in your own words how this is an issue in women's sports? That wikipedia page only mentioned at the end about "issues" in competitive female sport but did not elaborate and only cited one study. I clicked on the linked study but no one has the time to read eight pages of it especially one that is full of jargon for those without scientific or sports background. So far though, I see that the authors of the study criticised IAAF testing methods as being flawed but I couldn't find the meat and bones of what specifically they are trying to criticise.

[–] eleitl@lemm.ee 9 points 1 month ago (43 children)

It is a complicated issue, hence the need for details. In a nutshell, rare people like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya have such a significant competitive advantage against vanilla females they would come to dominate some female olympic disciplines to the point it would destroy female olympics as a sport competition. I would argue they need to compete in their own class for the same reasons of fairness as female and male ligas are distinct.

This cannot be discussed rationally in the current political shitstorm unfortunately.

[–] Kacarott@aussie.zone 34 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No matter what arbitrary divisions are in place, be that gender or weight or race or whatever, there will always be people who dominate the field. That doesn't destroy the Olympics as a sport competition, that is the Olympics as a sport competition. Competing in order to find the best of the best, the "freaks of nature" who manage to far surpass the average person.

[–] eleitl@lemm.ee 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Competition is core to human nature, but so is fairness. Which is why men and women compete in different categories. If you want to discourage women athletes to compete it would seem somewhat unfair to me, but really I only care enough to correct technical points in a discussion.

[–] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I don't know your political leanings, but this is consistent with the same people who are anti-DEI and anti-anything else that forces equality.

So what's so wrong about forcing equality literally anywhere else? Or, why is it necessary only in women's sports?

Then, going back to the original post, why is Michael Phelps lauded despite having clear genetic advantages?

[–] Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 month ago

Or, why is it necessary only in women’s sports?

As a general rule in sports, men participate in essentially "open" leagues, while women's leagues exist to protect women from having to compete against everyone else to promote women taking part. In other words, women's leagues are already a form of protectionism to encourage participation because people care about women having a "fair" environment to participate in in a way they do not for men.

This idea that sports leagues for women/girls are a form of protectionism even extends down to school sports and Title IX, which is why under current Title IX policy girls must be allowed to try out for boys teams but not the reverse.

[–] Kacarott@aussie.zone 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

But where are you basing your definition of "fairness"? If you exclude people with a biological advantage, since that would be unfair, then literally all current athletes would be excluded, since by qualifying for the Olympics they have proven that they have a strong biological advantage over the average person.

[–] tmyakal@lemm.ee 5 points 1 month ago

The only solution is to Harrison Bergeron everyone.

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