My sister's take has been that since trans women don't go through the pain of menstruation or giving birth, they have no right to suggest they "earned" being a woman.

I mean that and she thinks Disney became woke and they ruined her beloved 90s films. I remember talking about Putin and how he said the most Bond villain thing with "you in the west believe history is a struggle between oppression and freedom, I see it as a struggle between chaos and order". Her take is history is a struggle between modesty and debauchery and we've gone too far in the debauchery direction.

I love her, and she can surprise me with her humor, but overall she can turn into Angela from the office, but she's not even religious.

[–] inlandempire@jlai.lu 117 points 3 months ago (2 children)

"earning" to be a woman sounds like the female equivalent to toxic masculinity

[–] meep_launcher@lemm.ee 78 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Terfs are the equivalent to toxic masculinity ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

[–] inlandempire@jlai.lu 21 points 3 months ago

True that, I never thought of it that way

[–] lennivelkant@discuss.tchncs.de 39 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Toxicity is Gender Neutral 🙌

[–] Timecircleline@sh.itjust.works 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I really like this take but would argue that toxic masculinity and femininity affect society in different ways. Hmm. Toxic gender ideology maybe?

[–] lennivelkant@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 3 months ago

For sure. There are many kinds of toxicity. Toxic gasses may affect you differently than inhaling silica dust, biological neurotoxins or rigid gender norms.

[–] ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.ml 53 points 3 months ago (4 children)

What are their thoughts on post op trans women? Because let me tell you, screaming pain in the hospital, pouring blood out my snatch (seriously it was so much), wearing pads every day, intense cramping from the catheter, abdominal pain for months, getting the stirrups and speculum treatment, I sure feel like I'd have 'earned' it by now

[–] interrobang@lemmy.blahaj.zone 29 points 3 months ago (1 children)

When my wife was newly transitioned, we were out in a big box store and she remarks, exasperated, "everyone is just stopping in my way or way invading my personal space today! Wtf!"

Nope, thats just how people treat women in public lol.

You never needed to earn being yourself via suffering, no one owes that to anyone, but I have witnessed personally just how authentically the public mistreats all femme people.

[–] ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.ml 15 points 3 months ago

I came out in between jobs but the level of respect and my assumed competence changed dramatically. My favorite was always me suggesting a solution, I get deer in headlights stares, a guy suggests the same thing and suddenly it's all the rage. Thankfully this never really happens in my current job but the sexism is for real in a lot of ways I didn't understand until transitioning

[–] nifty@lemmy.world 29 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I feel like if someone wants to be a gender without surgery that’s a totally valid choice. I don’t get the expectations around having the “right” genitals. Who decides what’s right? It’s trying too hard to conform to an understanding of gender identity that’s now archaic.

[–] ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.ml 17 points 3 months ago

I agree completely, surgery is definitely not a requirement especially with how inaccessible it is for so many people. That logic doesn't seem to fly for the sister in question though so maybe an appeal to 'yeah but some trans people have earned it according to you' could get a foot in the door

[–] howrar@lemmy.ca 28 points 3 months ago

Or cis women who just don't get painful periods? Or those who decide to get rid of periods altogether with medication?

[–] eestileib@sh.itjust.works 21 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Not to mention the months of being stabbed in the genitals and taint with electrified needles just to get ready for the surgery and recovery.

[–] ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 months ago

I had to do that for over two years 😭

[–] KillingAndKindess@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I am so not looking forward to this part

[–] eestileib@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago

My doc got me some serious topical shit from a compounding pharmacy : 30% benzocaine, 6% lidocaine, 6% tetracaine. Gotta put it on at scale and rub it in really thoroughly (use an exam glove for this so your fingers don't go numb), and cover it with plastic wrap. Do that an hour to 90 minutes before the appointment, and have a gummy on the way in.

That made it survivable for me, still not fun tho.

[–] nifty@lemmy.world 39 points 3 months ago

My sister’s take has been that since trans women don’t go through the pain of menstruation or giving birth, they have no right to suggest they “earned” being a woman.

What a bullshit pov since many people born as women don’t have children or menstruate, see this link

[link](https://helloclue.com/articles/cycle-a-z/talking-about-periods-beyond-gender#:~:text=Some%20cisgender%20women%20(assigned%20female,who%20aren't%20cisgender%20women.)

Some intersex people don’t menstruate, what are intersex people? They can choose to express gender identity as they see fit. Therefore, it’s not black/white about “menstruate = woman”

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 21 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Her take is history is a struggle between modesty and debauchery and we’ve gone too far in the debauchery direction.

Fascists always prattle about "degenerates."

[–] TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Also, 'debauchery', in this case just means more people are happier being themselves, and loving who they want to love, more than almost anytime in history.

These kind of people ignore all the regular kind of debauchery, like priests committing sexual abuse against children.

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago

Or blame one on the other.

[–] Rawrx3@lazysoci.al 2 points 3 months ago

I doubt women willingly "earned" their womanhood going through all that, and whose to say I'd rather not deal with periods and stuff over literally not being able to be myself in my own skin? Making friends is so difficult when half my mind is recognizing that they're gonna see the stubble no matter what I do and form opinions and assumptions on that alone.