157

Tankies say: "Critical support for fascism!" (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 weeks ago by PugJesus@lemmy.world to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world

31 comments fedilink hide all child comments

PROTIP: Opposition to interventionism in the Middle East does not have to equate to support for the currently extant states therein.

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[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

May the ayatollah suffer as he dies and any gods witnessing his death remind him of the pain he brought to the women of his country.

I stand with the people of Iran suffering under the boot of their evil governance

[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago

Can always count on OP to beat the shit out of a straw caricature of everyone to the left of Henry Cuellar.

[-] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 11 points 2 weeks ago

"I know how I'll support the anti-imperial cause! By supporting one of the longest imperial projects of human history predating even the civilization that gave us the etymological root of imperialism!"

[-] reagansrottencorpse@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 weeks ago

🙄

[-] Diva@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 weeks ago

By "actual Iranians" are you referring to the monarchist expats or people who actually live there? jw

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 41 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The people who actually live there and are murdered by the regime in large numbers.

Loving the downvotes on an easily verified event. Some of us followed the issue while it was ongoing; some of us have been following Iranian politics for years. Sorry for pointing out that your favorite 'anti-imperialist' regime is murderous and oppressive. :)

[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 19 points 2 weeks ago

favorite ‘anti-imperialist’ regime is murderous and oppressive

I didn't even realize that was debatable, especially after the protest murders and executions.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 22 points 2 weeks ago

Don't worry, you can still find plenty of tankies simping or "whatabout"ing for the Islamic Republic. They just file it away like Tiananmen Square - something to be excused or downplayed or deflected from.

[+] Diva@lemmy.ml -11 points 2 weeks ago

I have a bunch of friends there from college and plenty of them have issues with their government, some of them even live in America now. 100% of them have way more of a problem with Israels genocide than anything their government is doing.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 24 points 2 weeks ago

A whataboutism on an unrelated issue using "my Iranian friends", no less! About what I expected after being confronted with the actual mass protests against the regime and the murderous response from the Islamic Republic, lol.

[+] Diva@lemmy.ml -12 points 2 weeks ago

[removed by mod]

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

lol whataboutism, I’m not debating you

Cool, thanks for not disputing anything I've said by bringing up unrelated issues. Glad you agree that the Islamic Republic is a murderous regime that deserves to be toppled, and I'm especially glad you agreed without going off on any tangents about unrelated issues to say "BUT OTHER PLACES BAD TOO", or by trying to initially insinuate that "Real Iranians" aren't against the regime. :)

[+] Diva@lemmy.ml -13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I'm not super keen on toppling governments because "democracy" that you deliver to people by destroying their government is not democracy it is an occupation government. We saw this with Iraq and Afghanistan, I don't know how you people refuse to learn, that is the real evidence of bad faith in this conversation.

I don't live in Iran, or even in Russia right now so undermining those specific governments is not high on my agenda (I'm not on state department payroll).

I'll just continue to direct my energies towards shittalking the bloodthirsty dictatorship where I live, the United States.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I’m not super keen on toppling governments because “democracy” that you deliver to people by destroying their government is not democracy it is an occupation government.

I didn't realize that an attempted toppling by the Iranian people, put down by overwhelming force, including widespread use of sexual violence, was an attempt at an 'occupation government'. But it's unsurprising to hear such an opinion from a defender of the Islamic Republic.

I’ll just continue to direct my energies towards shittalking the bloodthirsty dictatorship where I live, the United States.

And spending your energy defending bloodthirsty dictatorships elsewhere, apparently. :)

[+] Diva@lemmy.ml -12 points 2 weeks ago

Aren't you guys the ones super mad about meddling in other peoples governments? That's the whole reason you're you're mad at Putin with Trump, what about you doing it makes it less bad? is this a case of ends justify the means?

And spending your energy defending bloodthirsty dictatorships elsewhere, apparently. :)

You're the one rageposting that the people who don't support your genocide are not voting for your team this election

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

Aren’t you guys the ones super mad about meddling in other peoples governments? That’s the whole reason you’re you’re mad at Putin with Trump, what about you doing it makes it less bad?

So now the Mahsa Amini protests were caused by Western meddling? Fucking lmao.

[+] Diva@lemmy.ml -9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

So now the Mahsa Amini protests were caused by Western meddling? Fucking lmao.

you had said:

Glad you agree that the Islamic Republic is a murderous regime that deserves to be toppled

so my later response was:

Aren’t you guys the ones super mad about meddling in other peoples governments? That’s the whole reason you’re you’re mad at Putin with Trump, what about you doing it makes it less bad? is this a case of ends justify the means

If it happens from people internally having their political will recognized then that's a good thing.

If it happens from a military intervention like with Afghanistan and Iraq, (or with a bunch of state department ghouls dumping money on ISIS for terrorist attacks) that's a bad thing.

I could make fun of you for struggling with reading, but this is clearly bad faith- You made a call to action that I was pointing out doesn't really mean that you end up with any less of a dictatorship. I mean the Taliban is back in control in Afghanistan after America lost that conflict.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

If it happens from people internally having their political will recognized then that’s a good thing.

Yep, and since I was talking about the Mahsa Amini protests from the start, quite explicitly so, to the point of linking to an article referencing them, I'm glad you agree with me. I mean, it took a little waffling around on your part on how you find opposition to the Islamic Republic 'farcicial' because you have 'Iranian friends' who are concerned about the Palestinian genocide (how that changes their mind on the Islamic Republic, I'm not quite sure), but you came around in the end, and that's what counts.

[+] Diva@lemmy.ml -6 points 2 weeks ago

You seem completely incapable of nuance, which is hilarious considering how mad you get at people no supporting your choice of genocidal corpse president.

you have ‘Iranian friends’ who are concerned about the Palestinian genocide (how that changes their mind on the Islamic Republic, I’m not quite sure)

Let me paint you a picture- I remember freshman year having my roommate tell me he was "Persian" and he seemed straight up embarrassed by the Islamic republic - he was even in Iran visiting family during 2022 for those protests and was helping get people out of prison.

After ~November 2023 and the obvious genocide starting in Gaza he started going to protests against it- and was shocked at how the liberals he was friends with immediately turned on him and started producing absolutely horrifying rationalizations justifying Israels actions (I saw this play out in our group chat)

He often vents to me how in his expat whatsapp groups there's always people (often from incredible wealth) who are absolutely fixated on wanting to 'topple' the government to the exclusion of all other issues, including the genocide that has killed orders of magnitude more people outright than Iranian state repression.

You seem fixated on the idea that we worship these governments and it really seems like projection, especially considering how defensive you get over the US government and its wanton destruction.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

You seem completely incapable of nuance, which is hilarious considering how mad you get at people no supporting your choice of genocidal corpse president.

Sorry that you're so eager for genocide and mass sexual violence here under a Christian Republic in the same Abrahamic vein as Iran's current government, but I don't really see the relevance?

You seem fixated on the idea that we worship these governments and it really seems like projection, especially considering how defensive you get over the US government and its wanton destruction.

Considering that you were just WhatAbouting the Islamic Republic's mass murder and sexual violence against protesters? Uh, gonna go with "It doesn't matter if you count that as worship, it's still bad".

[-] Diva@lemmy.ml -5 points 2 weeks ago

Sorry that you’re so eager for genocide and mass sexual violence here under a Christian Republic in the same Abrahamic vein as Iran’s current government, but I don’t really see the relevance?

Look I voted for Hillary last time, you clearly don't need my vote this time.

you were just WhatAbouting the Islamic Republic’s mass murder and sexual violence against protesters

This is the part where you just make shit up so I have to spend time responding. You are the one trying to browbeat people into approving your teams genocide.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

This is the part where you just make shit up so I have to spend time responding.

Lmao. Anyone can follow the comment thread and see you play 'Whataboutism' games about a brutal theocracy's mass murder and sexual violence.

[-] Diva@lemmy.ml -3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The part I pointed out the issue with was the implied "and we should do something about it". You said "and this is why they must be toppled" - which implies that somebody should do something. When the entirety of recent history has been the US trying to meddle with other governments and collectively punishing the people who live there with sanctions, if not outright invading them, shock and awing their infrastructure, and setting up a government for a former expat to run.

You are just trying to flatten everything to extremely recent events, it don't hold up to scrutiny otherwise.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

You are just trying to flatten everything to extremely recent events, it don’t hold up to scrutiny otherwise.

Oh, I'm so sorry for bringing up recent events, I'll keep in mind that when I bring up and link recent events, talking about recent events, and explicitly discuss the repercussions of recent events started and sustained by Iranians in their own country, what I REALLY am doing is... [checks notes] American imperialism.

[-] Diva@lemmy.ml -4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I mean we do agree that internal political will being met is good, so how about moving on to where we disagree: Bidens genocide and why you're so insistent everyone else approve of it.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago

so how about moving on to where we disagree

"How about we stop talking about the issue at hand and change the subject?"

I mean, if you want to end the conversation here, that's fine, I understand it's embarrassing to be called out on an entire chain of whataboutisms in defense of a theocracy's campaign of rape and murder against protesters, just don't pretend like it's a natural extension of the conversation, lol.

[-] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 3 points 2 weeks ago

I’ve encountered this one before. Their only purpose in life is to find a counter argument, and mock you for something. It is impossible to fight them because they aren’t trying to win or lose, just wear you down. They have no actual opinions on anything. And most likely, they feel like a total loser in real life.

[-] Diva@lemmy.ml -3 points 2 weeks ago

You have such a fascinating approach to argument, it's like creative writing where you just make shit up and refuse to address anything directly lmao

[-] Belastend@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

To counter you anecdotal evidence: my partner fled from Iran 4 years ago and still has a lot of friends and family there. All of them would love see this regime fall, so much so, that her friends went out to protest One of them was arrested, tried and found guilty of corruption on earth. He was to not leave the country for five years and was threatened with an even harsher punishment, if he took part in protests again. He took to the streets the day after his release.

These people hate their government with a burning passion. Doesn't matter what Israel does, they would love to see this occupational regime fall.

[-] Diva@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago

Yeah, the Islamic Republic is awful literally every Iranian person I know agrees on that, and it sucks that America meddled in their government for so long before it. Hopefully something that isn't a western puppet government takes its place and actually represents the people.

[-] sweetpotato@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

This support for fascism just shows how bad things are in the world and how there's no hope.

It's a logical reaction and I can understand it. I think having multiple imperialism poles is better than having one global imperialist power controlling everything. Of course this world situation is a far cry from anything even remotely desirable, but I'd still be more satisfied with a US loss against China, Russia, Iran etc than from a US win against them. An oligopoly is better than a monopoly.

Unfortunately we are stuck in the very unfortunate situation where the only viable alternatives are all fascists. I can understand the sentiment of supporting an opponent of the empire you are in, but people need to stop seriously supporting any empires.

this post was submitted on 19 May 2024

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