this post was submitted on 13 Apr 2022
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Linux

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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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Know the name of your system (lemmy.ml)
submitted 2 years ago by Armand_Raynal@lemmy.ml to c/linux@lemmy.ml
11 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Some come to me and say, "but dude, we should give recognition to the kernel and say GNU/Linux", and I tell them I don't care about the kernel, am not saying GNU/Linux every time, it's way too long and doesn't roll off the tongue. Plus "Linux" sounds nerdy af, like, "blip bop kernel source code 00101000 10100100", while GNU's all about freedom, what really matters, being all like "am not your proprietary crap" repeated ad infinitum through the recursive acronym that is GNU, that's proper big brain stuff right there rather than technical gibberish about a kernel.

This one paragraph abode is very tongue in cheek of course, but I still mean it though.

I've spent a few years arguing for GNU/Linux or even just GNU on reddit, mostly in r/linuxmasterrace, and I was pleased to get quite a few upvotes every now and then, in a place where you can find people that will say things like "I make a point of never saying GNU/Linux, it's called Linuuux!!!111!"

Here's some comments I still can hardly believe got upvoted :

68 points! - https://old.reddit.com/r/linuxmasterrace/comments/d01jb1/richard_stallman_is_giving_a_talk_at_microsoft/ez5tv3t/

35 points! - https://old.reddit.com/r/linuxmasterrace/comments/5vivqm/stallman_id_just_like_to_interject_for_a_moment/de2k344/

13 points! - https://old.reddit.com/r/linuxmasterrace/comments/iyds65/no_richard_its_linux_not_gnulinux/g6enrjc/

14 points! (this copypasta works well it seems) - https://old.reddit.com/r/linuxmasterrace/comments/jh0tb9/the_real_os_king/g9vra1r/

14 points! - https://old.reddit.com/r/linuxmasterrace/comments/bu2yh8/i_use_gnu_btw/ep7hy91/

And many more but with less upvotes or less interesting.

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[–] TheKernalBlog@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago

Not to discredit the contributions of the FSF, Linux does not need GNU, but GNU sure as hell needs Linux. Hurd is a mess, and simply cutting out Linux from the name when it is the most important, complicated piece of the OS is a bit dumb. If we didn't have GNU, Linux would be doing just fine something like Musl, the BSD compiler, and Busybox. Without Linux, GNU would be nothing but an experimental LibC, Compiler, and Shell.

[–] pingveno@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I get why people say this, but at this point "Linux" has become so much more than either GNU or Linux proper, and even many people who are not knee deep in tech are familiar with "Linux" under that name. It's like arguing against using the name "Kleenex" for any facial tissue. Maybe it's technically correct, but common usage left the station a couple decades ago.

[–] Armand_Raynal@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago

GNU.org argue to add GNU/, making it GNU/Linux, this way you give recognition to the initial project, the freedom concerned project, while also using the "Linux" term for its recognition.

Lots of people have replied to me along my years around this conversation that GNU/Linux is just too long, so I say if it's really too much to type GNU/Linux, might has well shorten it to just GNU. That's what I chose to do personally, what I think makes more sens and is a better choice compared to shortenning to "Linux" for the name of the system in general imo ...

[–] handos@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

They should have named it better then because they way GNU is pronounced is awkward to say in conversation and doesn't convey the point like most other OS names do.

Logically sure it makes sense to call it a GNU system or even GNU/Linux but casually it really doesn't compared to Linux, especially when you take name recognition into account

[–] sexy_peach@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't care. Make a new sub and make a post that argues for everyone to switch, otherwise it all works fine imo

[–] sproid@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago

a Lemmy instance just to claim Linux should be called GNU/Linux 🤡

[–] Echedenyan@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I encourage you to use https://teddit.net or any other Teddit instance instead of Reddit links which, even with the old front-end, track users, run unknown code in users' web browsers and is still a resources black hole for modest computers.

[–] Armand_Raynal@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago

Thanks! Didn't know this!

[–] whou@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I do agree that the vast majority of distributions made for daily use uses the GNU Core Utils (hard to use most popular software without glibc).

But I'd like to remember that there are more than a handful of Linux distributions we use everyday while forgetting they don't use GNU Software at all.

Take for example Android or distributions used in server/embedded systems like Alpine Linux. The kernel and the Unix-like environment is the core reason people remember them as Linux and not Bionic, BusyBox or musl.

You are still completely right when talking about casual desktop Linux, which the majority of discussions about "Linux" focuses on.

Damn, I want GNU Hurd to be s table soon so I could flex about my GNU system.

Perhaps we could create a c/GNU community?

[–] Armand_Raynal@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

But I’d like to remember that there are more than a handful of Linux distributions we use everyday while forgetting they don’t use GNU Software at all.

I get reminded of that every time the conversation comes sup, it's systematic, even when I preemptively mention it. I couldn't forget it even if I wanted to. I then remind people that GNU free of Linux virus(/s) also exists.

https://old.reddit.com/r/linuxmasterrace/comments/dbfxn7/replying_to_a_comment_reading_linux_is_a_kernel/f227k04/

https://old.reddit.com/r/linuxmasterrace/comments/o058hi/not_gnu/h1tpf29/

Debian did it before, Debian/kfreeBSD, Glorious GNU free of that Linux virus.

And by the way that's also why GNU makes more sens imo, because when people talk about "Linux", saying something like "try Linux!", they obviously don't mean Android, everybody already runs Android, they don't mean any system running the linux kernel, like chromeos, or embedded system inside a microwave, because everybody already uses the linux kernel. Really what they mean is "try libre systems that our GNU based distros are". Because if it's not about freedom, then it's about running a specific component, a specific kernel, and then our glorious free distros have nothing to claim to be superior to chromeos for instance(ignoring potential technical limitations for the sake of the argument, chromeos is just to be understood here as any proprietary system using the linux kernel). Disarmed of its ideological roots libre software becomes inoffensive for giant corps like google seeking control over their users, because they simply use the freedom to their advantage without giving it to their users. And that's when I always repeat :

Words control ideas, ideas control people (Heard from Michael Parenti)

Damn, I want GNU Hurd to be s table soon so I could flex about my GNU system.

Not going to happen unfortunately, it's basically stopped, I think I've read somewhere that the last commit to hurd's code was something like 3 years ago ... The FSF and GNU project don't consider it worth investing in when Linux-libre does the job.

That won't stop me from flexing about my GNU system personally, and by that I mean, currently Fedora, but it could be any other distros(of course not including those that don't actually use GNU stuff like Android and Alpine). Everybody and his dog runs Linux, really what I run is GNU OS, it just happens to sport that Linux kernel because it's the best GPLed kernel out there for the moment ... You know, that's the idea am pushing out there, that's routine speech sort of.

lemme copy paste here in spoiler a copypasta of my own I used a few times and had quite some success :

spoilerCalling it by the name of the original project or by the name of the kernel has implications.

Linux, the kernel, as the name of the whole system, is a pro corporate term that says our system is defined by running a particular kernel and it was started in 1991 by a CS student for fun.

GNU, the original name of the project to create a full libre system for PC, that is, a system assembled from numerous libre software that respect's the user's freedom by giving him absolute control over his hardware, say that our system was started in 1984 by people who thought you, I and everybody else deserved to be able to use their computers on their own terms rather having to comply with the conditions of something like microsoft.

Also by calling it Linux you refer to all system running the Linux kernel. Is that what we are about? I don't know about you but stuff like android and chromeos, that does not interest me.

By calling it GNU you refer to all libre systems in general. So our distros, and stuff like debian/kfreeBSD and the BSD distros -just like what people mean when they say "install linux" in general for instance-, unless you specifically want to exclude those distros then GNU/Linux makes sens.

A kernel really isn't a good way to define our libre system. It's assembled from numerous libre software projects to make a full system that respect our freedom, that's what defines our system, GNU.

Businesses only use the terms "linux" and "open source", so they have much more exposition, but there's no point in using those terms unless you have the same agenda as businesses like microsoft who says it loves "linux" and "open source". Libre software and GNU are the original, freedom referring, on point, and shorter terms.

An example on the top of my mind is people saying "linux all the things!", they really mean "free everything!".

Open source also introduces a confusion with people thinking it's all about being able to read the source code. The open source definition is clear on that, modifications and sharing the modified versions must be allowed. It's pretty much the same things as the 4 freedoms of the Libre software definition, it really is just a corporate friendly rebranding of Libre software.

If a kernel is what defines our system, does windows becomes one of our beloved distros if microsoft decide to make Linux their kernel with all the rest basically the same? That kinda is what chromeos is with google instead of microsoft, which isn't far from macos, and that's surely not what we are about here.

Words control ideas, ideas control people.

[–] whou@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago

You're absolutely right.