I'd love to see a chart showing disposable income. Something tells me the rosy picture of the economy is for a segment and overall things are worse.
this post was submitted on 20 Mar 2024
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I'm not sure this is the best metric, since someone who's able to make it when before they couldn't make it at all, is much better than someone at the top just having more disposable income now. The OP article goes into some metrics like wage disparity and unemployment that touch more directly on economic survival as opposed to wealth at the top. But if you want to see disposable income then sure. The little divot followed by resumption of the upward line after the Covid chaos is what OP's article is talking about: Biden recovering the economy from Covid almost as if it hadn't happened, which most first world countries haven't been able to do.
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Things are a lot better for people who are poorer than you and a little bit worse for people like you. And also probably a LOT better for people who are filthy disgusting rich.
Who cares how well the stock market is doing if we all got mass fired to make it happen
To be fair to the article, they don't talk much about stocks or GDP. They're mostly focused on unemployment, wages, and inflation. It's worth questioning how effective those metrics are given how the data is collected tho.
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…highest rate of economic growth among nations in the G7, the lowest inflation, and the strongest wage growth. The unemployment rate hasn’t been this low for this long in half a century. Even accounting for inflation, wages are higher today than they were before the coronavirus pandemic…
Yo, can some of this wage growth trickle down to me already? Nobody in my circles is even getting standard merit raises, never mind the 6%+ each year we’d need to stay ahead of inflation. Most companies seem to be withholding raises, and enshittifying existing policies, as an underhanded way to get people to quit without doing actual layoffs.
In fact, I suspect slate is just making this up entirely, based on anecdotal experience. They go on to claim that the big recipients of these wage increases are the lowest paid workers. Does that mean minimum wage earners got some 50% increase to now make $12/hr? News flash: that still doesn’t afford you groceries in today’s economy.
suspect slate is just making this up entirely, based on anecdotal experience. They go on to claim that the big recipients of these wage increases are the lowest paid workers. Does that mean minimum wage earners got some 50% increase to now make $12/hr? News flash: that still doesn’t afford you groceries in today’s economy.
I mean they "aren't" in that they've got citations, but its important to dig into that.
President Joe Biden spent most of his recent State of the Union address celebrating his economic record, with good reason. There is no denying the numbers: The United States currently enjoys the highest rate of economic growth among nations in the G7, the lowest inflation, and the strongest wage growth. The unemployment rate hasn’t been this low for this long in half a century. Even accounting for inflation, wages are higher today than they were before the coronavirus pandemic, and the biggest wage gains have accrued among the lowest-paid workers, resulting in a dramatic reduction in overall wage inequality. The economy is even outperforming among communities that are often excluded from boom-time gains. Biden has overseen the lowest Black unemployment rate on record and the lowest ever unemployment rate for workers with disabilities. The American economy isn’t perfect, but by any historical standard it is very, very good.
Salon is treating these metrics as fixed objects with some magical immutable definition. But the reality is that we've simply redefined what these tools mean, and then accepted the redefinition as if it always meant that. But quite literally, the way these numbers are calculated have been redefined to be basically useless. Look at inflation and CPI: http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts. I can go backwards from my grocery receipts and look at what individual items cost me. We've seen at LEAST 10% annual inflation on basically every item on our grocery bill since 2019-2020. Almost every item is 40% more expensive than it was with some items being almost doubled in price.
Look at unemployment, where the Fed conveniently just ignore long term unemployment: https://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/unemployment-charts. We lost union jobs for 401ks, then we lost full time jobs with benefits for the gig economy. Shits fucked and we've got the Feds and Salon blowing sunshine up our asses.
Right, these record unemployment and CPI numbers are derived by changing the calculations, it’s amazing how quickly that’s been forgotten. This is the true power of controlling the narrative of the American propaganda machine.
For those “enjoying” this record employment, it still means busting ass working 2-3 low paying jobs just to barely make ends meet. Those same jobs won’t let you get above 32 hours either, so forget about benefits afforded to full time employees, such as marginally more affordable healthcare. And over 62% of Americans are literally living paycheck to paycheck, unable to afford an emergency $400 expense. Good thing they have backup financing available at payday lenders on every street corner I suppose…
It’s really sad how brutal America is to its own citizens. And mind boggling how twisted Americans are to deny this is happening at all until they’re blue in the face. Open your eyes and your ears people, think for yourself, and question authority.
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They're citing statistics.
YOU have the anecdotal evidence.
I'm sorry shit isn't going so well for you and yes, it sucks to be kept down without much hope. I have been there - under Bush.
But it's really fucking arrogant to say that because YOUR experience sucks the data is false and the press is lying.
There is nothing arrogant about recognizing that your living conditions have regressed over the course of the past 5 years, nor is there anything wrong with basing your decisions around how you percieve things to be.
Its a headline and story that's been being trotted out for 2, almost 3 years. We keep being told the economy is 'booming' and yet the lived experience disagrees. I have the receipts that my live experience isn't lying (they are quite literally grocery receipts). Our money isn't going as far and wages have effectively stagnated since 2019. My power bill is twice what it was; no change in consumption. My grocery bill is also basically twice what it was. Again, no heads added or change in consumption. In fact, we cut out things. A couple of years ago, taking a big trip was totally reasonable. I don't even feel like I can take weekends off any more.
What you've got to start realizing is that their economy is not our economy. No one is giving credit because there is no credit to give. The stock market going up and to the right means jack shit when you can't afford groceries.
What you've got to start realizing is that their economy is not our economy.
I think you’ve really identified to crux of the matter here. The stock market is not the economy. To rich DC insiders, it’s everything, but to the other 99% of us, who gives a shit? Wake me up when we can do insider trading too I guess.
The meteoric rise of a select few chip manufacturers is what’s driving this “strong economy”, btw. How on earth is that considered sustainable economic success?
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Here's Gallup actually asking the people and not an economist quoting the most generalized of statistics to cover up real conditions on the ground. It is entirely possible for the economy to grow, for unemployment to drop, and inflation to be less, while the working class is evicted en masse.
63% of U.S. adults say recent price increases have caused financial hardship for their family. This includes 17% who say it is a severe hardship affecting their ability to maintain their standard of living and 46% who report it is a moderate hardship but does not jeopardize their standard of living. Another 37% of Americans say inflation is not a hardship at all.
The current 63% saying rising prices are a personal hardship reflects a continuation of peak concern on this measure since Gallup started monitoring it in November 2021. In that initial reading, 45% reported a severe or moderate hardship. The rate inched up in 2022 even as inflation ebbed, perhaps reflecting the cumulative effect of higher prices rather than the rate itself.
Those in lower-income households (76%) are more likely than those in middle-income households (64%) and higher-income households (54%) to say price increases are causing them hardship. However, income differences are even more pronounced when looking just at those saying the impact is severe. Lower-income Americans (30%) are three times as likely as high-income adults (10%) and almost twice as likely as middle-income adults (16%) to characterize high prices as a severe hardship.
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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command
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Shop at costco. Groceries are expensive because grocery chains are padding their profit margins. For example: Ham for sandwiches is $2.99 a pound at costco, $10.99 a pound at Kroger/Publix. And the costco ham is real.
Publix made $4.3 billion in profit in 2023 - about $3m per store, up 48% from 2022. Kroger’s net profit margin is up 53% year on year.
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so i read the article and all the coments here, as well as most of the cited links and some other articles i thought would help. im not an economist but i know most of you aren’t either.
are we just allergic to admitting the economy might just be mid?
why are we so horny to say JOE BIDEN GOOD or JOE BIDEN BAD? when really it’s quite clear that many many things are bad, many people lost jobs, people are struggling, people are scared AND ALSO it could be a lot worse, because we’ve seen it be a lot worse in recent history?
and everyone railing against Biden in these comments: so are we cool with voting third party? letting the spoiler effect spoil? shudder voting Trump? what are your intentions? the primaries are over. the time to set up a third line to the trolley problem is past.
what are we doing? maybe we should pick a better struggle.
go unionize your workplace. go help out your neighbors and friends, go and participate in local government. vote for biden to minimize the violence that will inevitably occur. plant a garden for your community. support local artists who might be disabled or unable to work. tip your waiter. be decent? be kind. i don’t know im literally just a girl. whatever
So many people consider any kind of nuance to be weakness and failure.
why are we so horny to say JOE BIDEN GOOD or JOE BIDEN BAD?
I'll 100% agree with this -- I actually feel pretty weird coming in and saying all good things about any establishment Democrat like some kind of faithful CNN viewer. For me I actually try to make a deliberate effort to air criticism of Biden where it's due (bottom comment here or talking about his support for Israel), although I can kind of understand the desire to respond to "Biden bad Biden bad Biden bad" in this sort of endless drumbeat with saying he's good on everything, just to sort of "counterbalance."
But yeah there's nothing wrong with just saying it the way it is, good or bad.
go unionize your workplace. go help out your neighbors and friends, go and participate in local government. vote for biden to minimize the violence that will inevitably occur. plant a garden for your community. support local artists who might be disabled or unable to work. tip your waiter. be decent? be kind.
1,000% agree. Internet is nice to be able to communicate about interests that maybe people in your real world environment don't share. But nothing about real political and social change will happen from typing a comment.
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Good? I’m definitely not making what I should be, adjusted for inflation (23.6%). I’m not even asking to make MORE just literally what I made in 2018, adjusted. I was fine right there.
If the company doesn't pay you fairly for your work, you throttle down your work.
No, that's a total shit attitude. You jump ship if you're not fairly compensated. I went from $14 -> $18-22 -> $39 (+mad benefits with each move, 10-years).
Build your skills and education, JUMP. FFS, young people act like they're being used by these companies. Instead, use them.
Young and old, we all know lifetime careers at the same company is a thing of the past. Fuck. Them. Use them for resume ammo and jump if you're not happy.
Well, yes and no. The work is easy, my manager is great, I have complete control of the code and two juniors to do shit I don’t want to. So, it has perks. But…. They’re gonna have to step it up, because after another year or two here I’ll have quite an impressive list of accomplishments as a lead developer, and that could easily move me up and out.
I’m gonna wait until November to see if I have to jump ship to Canada though.
I'm already doing negative work.
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Lmao.
Yet more people who make too much money to be connected to reality wondering why the commoners are complaining.
It's because the economy is not good for them. It's really that simple. Shit is expensive and most people did not get pay raises. Most of the ones that did get raises haven't gotten enough to tackle the increases in food, rent, and utility prices. People are working full time and slipping into homelessness through no fault of their own.
And we have this gaslighting bullshit blasted at us every day like we don't have eyes of our own and brains to think with.
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In this thread: "Biden did not have a 1-on-1 conversation with my manager that resulted in a massive raise, so I declare these statistics invalid!"
This seems to happen a lot on Lemmy, makes me miss the Economics subreddit.
I know that not everyone has had the opportunity to take classes in economics, but the amount of people who are unable to see past their own nose is incredible.
How would we prefer our leaders to make policy decisions? Should they pick a random 10 people and ask what they think, or would it be better to gather a wide range of data on the topic to build an understanding of the economic impacts for 300M+ people? I'd argue that it would be irresponsible for policymakers to ignore the aggregate statistics, but commenters in this thread seem dead set on asserting that because their personal circumstances don't follow the narrative, the statistics must be a lie.
Good luck trying to explain to working-class people that the struggle they're feeling is only because they don't understand economics well enough.
Good luck trying to explain to tech-savvy upper-income Lemmy users that average income adjusted for inflation, at the bottom end of the scale, has actually been rising faster than the grocery prices, and that that's a good thing.
I've been trying for a couple of days now with apparently no success.
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Sorry, but Lemmy is full of libertarian chodes. They got no clue, just a sense of moral superiority.
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They should ask TwoRandom_english_words_username whether that particular person is spending more at the grocery store than they were in 2019.
That seems to be the metric, a lot of people feel very strongly about it
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I guess the economy really is doing great. Which is somehow worse, because if this is what a good economy looks like I don't want to imagine what a bad one looks like.
Two thirds of people can't handle a $500 expense. Three quarters don't have a month of expenses saved. And a third of people making over $100,000 a year are living paycheck to paycheck. (Source 2023)
So maybe the problem isn't that the economy is broken and needs fixed, but that it's working correctly and needs replaced.
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Because the economy sucks for everyone who isn't a landlord or investor.
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Biden doesn't get the credit because from a purely pocketbook perspective, prices are still going up.
Telling the average citizen "Hey, you know, inflation is only 3%, not 9.9% like it was..."
They're going "Yeah, but it's an extra 3% ON TOP of the 9%."
And yeah, there's a lot of factors... corporate greed, bird flu raising the price of eggs, etc. etc. The average person doesn't care about that, all they care is their weekly grocery bill keeps going up and there's no sign of it coming back down.
"Average annual food-at-home prices were 5.0 percent higher in 2023 than in 2022. For context, the 20-year historical level of retail food price inflation is 2.5 percent per year."
Good time to buy pork though I guess!
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Yeah, whatever, please vote Biden because FFS do we really need to explain what happens if he loses?
Bash on him all you want starting 2025, force his hand to do better, but right now is NOT the time for this crap.
Everything is going to get a fuck of a lot worse if Biden loses. If Biden wins, things won't get better but at least things won't get worse at a more rapid rate. I'm sorry but if not wanting to send marginalized groups to concentration camps makes me a radical liberal then I guess I'm a radical liberal 🤷
How many times do we need to spell it out for you finance bros before you get it? The working class does not care about how Wallstreet is performing. The working class does not care about your cherry-picked misrepresentations of macroeconomic issues, nor do they trust them. The working class cares about the price of their grocery bill and the cost of housing, both of which have seen record increases in the last 4 years. You can shake your heads all you want and blame social media but until we dont have to chose between paying for medication or paying for groceries we are not going to buy any of the BS you are selling.
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Housing was not mentioned, and it is shit, what else was not included here?
A lot. A lot wasn't mentioned. Like how that low inflation doesn't erase previous inflation.
I'm sorry... did Biden magically end late-stage capitalism?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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How has the Lorenz curve shifted over the past 30 years?
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What percentage of people's income is going on housing?
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What percentage of people :
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are living with food insecurity, or are reliant on food banks and other charities?
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are living with their parents as adults?
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need second jobs in order to afford basic necessities?
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are in casual, gig or otherwise insecure employment?
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cannot afford adequate healthcare?
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will never own their own home?
All broken down by percentile, please. And how have those numbers shifted over the last 30 years?
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