this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2024
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Former Kentucky swimmer Riley Gaines was among more than a dozen college athletes who filed a lawsuit against the NCAA on Thursday, accusing it of violating their Title IX rights by allowing transgender woman Lia Thomas to compete at the national championships in 2022.

The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Atlanta, details the shock Gaines and other swimmers felt when they learned they would have to share a locker room with Thomas at the championships in Atlanta. It documents a number of races they swam in with Thomas, including the 200-yard final in which Thomas and Gaines tied for fifth but Thomas, not Gaines, was handed the fifth-place trophy.

Thomas swam for Pennsylvania. She competed for the men’s team at Penn before her gender transition.

Thomas was the first openly transgender athlete to win a Division I title in any sport, finishing in front of three Olympic medalists for the championship. By not making the final, the lawsuit mentions that Florida swimmer Tylor Mathieu, who was not a plaintiff, was denied first-team All-American honors in that event.

Other plaintiffs included athletes from volleyball and track.

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[–] twig@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

This debate is asinine.

Fuck it, let's just abolish competitive sport until people can calm the fuck down about their stupid games. Maybe we could make the world better in general if we funnel some of that sporting money into something that isn't totally pointless.

[–] stoly@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago (1 children)

lol you point out that the amount of money put into sports could be used for other things. You suggest making the world better as a possible use case.

There’s nothing incorrect about any of this yet people got angry with you. It’s weird.

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[–] not_that_guy05@lemmy.world 20 points 7 months ago (3 children)

On this subject I've had mix feelings.

I get their point and I do not see this as a fair thing. Now that more people are coming out or transitioning should they try to make a different league or something?

[–] andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works 21 points 7 months ago (10 children)

Correct me, but we are yet to see a trans person winning anything or achieve a significant record anywhere. IIRC hormones do a big effect on anything but bones frame. And we are still talking potentional damage for M2F transitioners only, not F2M athletes or NB athletes.

Honestly, I think the whole perception of international competitive gendered sports like Olympics shall die. Sportsmanship on that level is toxic, many use drugs, costumes and hacks to somehow gain the edge. I see sports as a motivation for regular people to think of their health, not a gambling platform or a thing to boost national pride by injecting 'winning horses' with steroids, inhalers, whiskey.

Trans problem in sports is not a problem of trans people who do sports but another reason to redo sports and our perception of them.

[–] Buelldozer@lemmy.today 40 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Correct me, but we are yet to see a trans person winning anything or achieve a significant record anywhere.

The article itself has this to say:

"Thomas was the first openly transgender athlete to win a Division I title in any sport, finishing in front of three Olympic medalists for the championship."

I'd say that winning a Div1 title ahead of three Olympic Medalist is somewhat significant.

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[–] Shiggles@sh.itjust.works 25 points 7 months ago (7 children)

Gendered sports dying means sports for biological women dying and sports for biological men being basically unaffected.

Something tells me competitive sports aren’t just going to die out because some of us struggle to accept testosterone is a steroid and gives an unfair advantage versus women.

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[–] veloxization@yiffit.net 12 points 7 months ago

Trans athletes have definitely won some competitions. The news were sometimes difficult to miss.

But that's really the thing. Sometimes it feels like there's no problem before a trans athlete wins. Like how many competitions have transgender athletes taken part in throughout modern history? Thousands? And how many have they won? A handful?

I mean, almost nobody talked about this before the inevitable happened: A trans person happened to win a competition and it gained media attention. And when we consider that the Olympics has allowed transgender athletes to compete within their gender since 2003...

[–] OccamsRazer@lemmy.world 12 points 7 months ago (6 children)

Seeing sports as a casual way to get exercise is fine on a personal level if you aren't an elite athlete, but you can't force that perspective on millions of people who enjoy competing or watching elite athletes compete. It's a weird take to want to rewire sports to accommodate a very small minority of people, most of whom wouldn't even agree with that perspective.

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[–] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 14 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yeah this one is a mixed bag. Biological males can absolutely have an advantage in certain things. Simple as that. I mean look what happened with the Williams sisters.

This one is an absolute mess of a thing to have to figure out and, at the end of the day, I'm glad I'm some dude on the sidelines and not having to make the call on this one lol.

[–] rustyfish@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago

I feel the same way. I strongly support one side of this story, but the other side also has a valid point. So even when things turn out how I think it should be, it still has a nasty after taste.

I think we should preemptively start a Go Fund Me for the poor guy who has to make the choice.

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[–] BigMacHole@lemm.ee 17 points 7 months ago

This will ENSURE that next time Riley Gaines will get First instead of Fifth! The ONLY thing holding her back was Lia Thomas being TRANS!

[–] RunawayFixer@lemmy.world 11 points 7 months ago

Testosterone is one hell of a drug: "After 24 months of testosterone suppression, bone mass is generally preserved. The review states that no study has reported muscle loss greater than 12% with testosterone suppression even after three years of hormone therapy.[75] It found that trans women are in the top 10% of females regarding lean body mass and possess a grip 25% stronger than most females.[75]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_sports

The physical differences because of testosterone are why we have separate competitions for men and women. Imo it's not very fair to lifelong women, to let new women compete against them, if those new women have significant physical advantages because of higher testosterone levels in their past. If the differences had been negated over time by hormone therapy, then I'd consider it fair, but the advantages are clearly not negated and they are quite significant.

[–] PriorityMotif@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago (5 children)

Just do a ranking system instead of segregating.

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[–] xePBMg9@lemmynsfw.com 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (12 children)

Organisation x holds a competition. They stipulate the rules for the competition. You don't agree with the rules. You don't have to participate. You are also allowed to express you displeasure with organisation x's decisions. Maybe organise your own competitions. Maybe yours will be better. The sky is the limit!

I will say; I don't care too much who these people compete with or against. But I do support their right to complain about it.

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