Ask Lemmy

The word was originally coined by a woman to describe her own situation. It got adopted by the manosphere, and then the connotations changed over time to what it is today, which is a slur and a stereotype label.

Sorry if I sound like a pedantic linguist here. But the meanings and usage of words can change over time.

There's a podcast called "Incel" that you might find interesting. It's not my cup of tea, but the host does attempt to form a neutral, high level understanding of the incel subculture.

Explain to me how the basic concept is not misogynistic in itself.

As I've understood it, the idea of the incel movement is that these people deserve to get fucked, by whomever they choose, that they don't have any obligation to change anything about themselves, they are just being treated unfairly.

It ignores the other person completely, they are just some price they deserve, not a living breathing person with their own feelings and preferences.

I realize people have trouble with social interaction, but an interaction with another person is inherently social, no two ways about it.

I feel like the term "Incel" has developed somewhat. I guess in the beginning it was used by men struggeling to get into a relationship to refer to themselves. It was used to find others with the same issues, and form a kind of self help group that could provide comfort and maybe even inprovement. If thats what incels were today, they wouldn't be hated like that. Perhaps they would be belittled or made fun of.

But that's not what we understand incels to be today. Incels now seem to be extremely bitter, delusional, pathetic individuals. They don't recognize the issue lies with themselves, instead it's supposedly the fault of the women, who won't accept their place in society. In the mind of an incel, they deserve to have sex, and that means that it should be a woman's duty to please them.

So no, you are probably not an incel, even if perhaps you would have been under the original definition.

TL;DR:

1. Misogyny. Inherently hating half the world's population is not going to win you many friends.

2. prone to violence. Because male-on-female DV isn't bad enough, why not add literal terrorism to the mix?

I don't believe anyone cares for Incels as people just in involuntary celibat letting their day go by with studies, work and their hobby.

Incels who are loud misogynistic is the only people we know are actually in involuntary celibat, and mad about it.

Grown ups don't hate virgins by default.

I'm sure there is a load of political world-building around it in little corners of the internet but for most people 'incel' is a just a byword for a creepy and desperate guy. If you're creepy and desperate you are therefore an incel. You're saying you're not like that though, so you must not be an incel. It takes a lot of effort as a young man to maintain an immaculate record of never being horny and lecherous, so you might actually be an incel sometimes too. My advice as an older guy is to just not worry about it. I see a lot of young guys on the internet worrying about never getting a girlfriend and blaming themselves. Just be patient and nice to girls and eventually you will get into a relationship. It is basically that simple.

they're just insufferable. the problem isn't the situation. it's the mindset they develop.

it basically becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy for them. they can't get a woman, they develop unhealthy views, related to self-entitlement, and they become walking red flags to normal, adjusted individuals, which drives their isolation, and then feeds into what they think always happens.

a defeatist attitude never gets anything done. being a person is, in part, about self improvement.

if your skills won't get you hired for a job, you need to improve your skills. dating and having successful relationships is not much different. the problem with many incels is that they improve all these other aspects of their life (job, property, car), and then can't understand why the other sex doesn't flock to them. they fail to realize that hitting all these various metrics is just a part of the equation, but not the whole she-bang.

if you haven't had a relationship, maybe you haven't had the right circumstances, or met the right person. the trick is to understand not to necessarily take that personally, as recursive as that sounds.

But why are incels also generally hated upon?

Your previous sentence answered your question.

Their belief is all women are trash or men are superior.

There is nothing wrong with being an adult and not being sexually active.

Making your sexual situation become your whole personality and using the obvious regret they feel about it as a springboard to justify hate against others is not.

Stereotypes. That's basically it. The way they go about their dilemmas has left an impression, which isn't unique in the slightest among subgroups of humanity. Especially as an asexual woman, I've had bad encounters with some, and although I recognize not all of them are guilty of anything, the ones that do make things difficult cloud the identity.

That itself would be enough of an issue, but then along comes Jordan Peterson. He is the choice idol of the majority of incels, and he uses this power and esteem imposingly. Without saying it explicitly, he encourages the idea that physical fun time is a human right to receive and a duty for all peoples to give. They cite him frequently and such ideas have shimmied us into a world where asexuality is somehow uncanon in reality, when it shouldn't be hard simply to have a bit of voluntaryism.

Because people who give themselves that label identify themselves with a community that openly spreads hatred and bigotry.

Does that make me an incel?

No, not unless you approve of that community and want to be part of it.

Go on any incel echo chamber and you'll know.

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I think theres what the word actually means, and then theres the stereotyped version that maybe has more power, ie angry about being celebate, poor mental health, usually hates women because of it.

Perhaps involuntarily celebate and incel mean slightly different things to each other by now.