this post was submitted on 02 Feb 2024

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182

No evidence of antisemitic 'gas' chant at pro-Palestinian Sydney protest, police find (www.sbs.com.au)

submitted 9 months ago by Deceptichum@kbin.social to c/world@lemmy.world

34 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Edited footage of protesters chanting "gas the Jews" at a rally outside the Sydney Opera House in October was shared on social media, but NSW Police said an extensive investigation found no evidence of it happening.

all 38 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 32 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Gosh, it's almost like one side lies constantly.

[–] CanadaPlus@futurology.today -3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Let's be real, both sides do. One just does it in English.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

No only one side is consistently lying about everything.

The more you research the history of Palestine the clearer it becomes that the issue is always the same side that then somehow pretends to be the victim.

[–] CanadaPlus@futurology.today 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

You do know Hamas (and most other similar organisations) claims the Holocaust never happened, right? They're not above spreading lies they find convenient. As often happens in geopolitics, everyone sucks.

I don't know, maybe you think Palestine has had such a rough time they're justified, and they have had a very rough time, but it's still lies.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Israel literally has a department called Hasbara which I think translates to "controlling the narrative'. Israel lies about shooting a journalist for half a year when it was captured on video.

I'm not saying Hamas is some kind of truth oracle. They recently made a video pretending to make snipers in Gaza which was very clearly fake. But major Palestinian events always check out from the Palesinian side and are full of lies from the israeli one. The Holocaust did not happen in Palestine and is not part of Palestinian history.

From the article I can find Hamas didn't want to teach it to kids and instead put Palestinian history such as the Nakba in the curriculum

Palestinians heavily doubt that anything taught by israel is true because in israel textbooks the Nakba gets descibed as a voluntary migration where israeli's honorably defended their land instead of israli's mass executing and raping Palstinians.

This shapes the Palestinian view that (incorrectly) literally everything taught by israel is just made up lies because they lie so much

[–] CanadaPlus@futurology.today 2 points 9 months ago

Upvote because that sounds about right. I don't think we actually disagree.

[–] platypus_plumba@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

Fuck Israel.

[–] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 2 points 9 months ago

MBFC link for SBS.

[–] Siegfried@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago

The NSFW police

[+] AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world -50 points 9 months ago (3 children)

"As a result of that examination, the expert has concluded with overwhelming certainty that the phrase chanted during that protest, as recorded on the audio and visual files, was "Where's the Jews?" he said.

"Not another phrase, as otherwise widely reported."

When asked whether there was evidence of other antisemitic phrases being used at the rally, Lanyon said "certainly".

"There is evidence of that, and those are offensive and completely unacceptable," he said.

"But I think the major contention has been about the phrase that was chanted, and quite emphatically, our expert has said that it is 'Where's the Jews?'"

Thank goodness, "where's (sic) the Jews" instead of "gas the Jews", just two days after the Oct 7 killings and mass rapes by Hamas, definitely makes it much better /s

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social 36 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

How dare they ask why Jewish voices aren’t also against Israel’s horrific response at a rally aimed at our governments blind support for Israel and the now obvious to everyone genocide of Palestinians.

Instead there was only lies spread to say they were calling for genocide of Jewish people.

[+] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca -16 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If that's the reason why they were yelling that, it's racist even if it's not genocidal. Substitute any other ethnicity or race into that sentence. Demanding that Jews attend a protest or swear a loyalty oath is racist -- the same way it would be if a bunch of people were yelling "where's the Blacks?" or "where's the Muslims?"

[–] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

For those coming to this late, know this: there's a little army of racist ghouls patrolling these threads to promote their agenda - in this case arguing that it's somehow legit and anti-racist to get the gang together to call out 'the Jews'. Yet not one of these pathetic cowards are brave enough to step into the light to defend it.

Here's why: it's indefensibly racist. They're painted into a corner and can't defend it without removing the mask.

When people demand that Muslims declare a loyalty oath against Hamas or Hezbollah or ISIS, or when they hold Muslims (or Palestinians) collectively responsible for their actions, it's inarguably racist. This isn't different.

Today they're encouraging you to target Jews; tomorrow it'll be BIPOC or Muslims. We should resist racist bullshit as ever. It's cancer to a liberation movement. These people are tumors to be excised from the movement, not people to be followed or promoted in it. And I say that as someone who's fought for a Palestinian state since the second intifada.

[+] AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world -32 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

You're grasping at straws, you clearly didn't read the article (and don't want to), so I quote the relevant passage for you as you seem to only have read the headline:

When asked whether there was evidence of other antisemitic phrases being used at the rally, Lanyon said “certainly”.

That + repeating "where's the Jews" during a rally immediately 2 days after Hamas' killings and mass rapes on October 7th is definitely indefensible and certainly is incompatible with how you want it to be interpreted.

You hoped that this article would be a gotcha moment but you seem to not have read anything beyond the headline, because the article is actually still pretty damning.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social 46 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Mate, I know what happens in my country.

Hundreds of Australians have marched in solidarity with Palestinians after the Israeli government formally declared war against Hamas in response to its surprise attack.

https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/09/pro-palestinian-rally-in-sydney-calls-for-australia-to-drop-support-for-israel

These were nationwide protests against Israel’s oppression. And they were justified, everything everyone said would happen has happened.

The reason “Gas the Jews” was lied about was because it would provide legal recourse to arrest those protesting. It was a deliberate attempt to abuse the justice system to silence victims. This lie led to further protests being cancelled and was spread worldwide to create a narrative that Palestians wanted all Jewish people dead.

https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/12/13/viral-footage-gas-the-jews-police-factcheckers-unverified/

Soon after the protest, organiser Fahad Ali posted on X that he had heard “anti-Semitic chants from a group of idiots who were in a minority”, and who he asked to leave. A further post from the organiser Palestine Action Group’s Facebook page also acknowledged that a “group of young boys, mostly in their teens chant[ed] ‘fuck the Jews’ “.

Ali confirmed to Crikey this week that he heard the other chant but did not hear “gas the Jews”, nor had he seen any evidence it was chanted.

As for your “well there was other antisemitic remarks made” argument.

There is no defence for editing video footage with faked audio and using that to influence political decisions to further oppress an oppressed people.

[–] quindraco@lemm.ee 25 points 9 months ago

If you think "where's" and "gas" are morally equivalent words in that sentence, good news, your local neonazis are most likely recruiting and very excited to hear more about your opinions.

[–] ABCDE@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

mass rapes by Hamas

Was there evidence of this?

If 7/10 were killings, what has been committed by Israel since?

[–] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Was there evidence of this?

Yes(Archive). Reported by many news organizations.

The UN is currently in Israel investigating(Archive).

[–] ABCDE@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Israeli investigators say

There was a very quick narrative formed around the supposed rape of children which shifted the Overton window significantly for even moderates in Israel.

An investigation isn't evidence of it. Both links are paywalled by the way.

[–] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca -2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I assume you mean the Times articles (there are 5 links in that post). Edited to add archive links to those two articles.

An investigation isn't evidence of it.

From the large investigation article:

A two-month investigation by The Times uncovered painful new details, establishing that the attacks against women were not isolated events but part of a broader pattern of gender-based violence on Oct. 7.

Relying on video footage, photographs, GPS data from mobile phones and interviews with more than 150 people, including witnesses, medical personnel, soldiers and rape counselors, The Times identified at least seven locations where Israeli women and girls appear to have been sexually assaulted or mutilated.

Photos, videos, GPS data, witnesses, and expert testimony are evidence.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

No it was fully debunked. The Intercept posted about it recently. Even NYT employees don't believe it anymore.

https://theintercept.com/2024/01/28/new-york-times-daily-podcast-camera/

The guys who actually debunked it two months ago are not allowed to be posted here because they're more pro Russia. All my posts about it got removed back then. They are maximum censored.

While I don't agree with their Russia stance their Palestine research has been spot on so far. But here's a random YouTube video https://youtu.be/paDjsRkhc28

[–] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Them pausing a podcast to investigate claims isn't them not believing in it. The Times regularly publishes corrections and have issued one about that article regarding a person's age. And that's after further investigation. It's not surprising that they didn't air it afterward -- it's a daily podcast that discusses the most important news stories of the previous few days. I listen to that podcast and I can't recall them ever covering something that was months old.

The 'guys' who "actually debunked it" -- an anonymous author publishing at a propaganda outlet -- are a bunch of fucking liars, which is why it was banned to begin with. The Times followed up with that family:

The Times article described the case of Gal Abdush, a mother of two who was killed along with her husband after fleeing the rave, and her family’s anguish over the uncertainty. Based on video of how her body was found, Israeli police officials said they believed she had been raped, and some members of the Abdush family said they feared the same.

“It seems to me, and I really hope I’m wrong,” said Zvika Alter, a brother-in-law, in early December, “that she was raped.”

Since the publication of the Times article, a few family members have denied or cast doubt on that possibility, including another brother-in-law who said he spoke to Ms. Abdush’s husband before he was killed. Critics have also seized on an Instagram comment by Miral Alter, Zvika’s wife and one of Ms. Abdush’s sisters, suggesting that The Times misled the family about the focus of the article.

Ms. Alter, whom The Times had not interviewed before the article was published, deleted the comment shortly after posting it. But critics circulated images of it to assert falsely that the family had renounced the article.

Last week, Ms. Alter told the Times that she was upset her post had been used to question whether Hamas sexually assaulted women and that when she made it, she had been “confused about what happened” and was trying to “protect my sister.”

After this was published, the propaganda outlet corrected "minor typographical errors" but mentioned nothing about the family calling them liars, disputing the thesis and headline of their article. It's been five days since that story was published. They didn't mention that she quickly deleted her post to begin with or contact her to ask why. They didn't mention that she was upset that they had used her comment to help cover up horrific sexual violence. They are exploiting a grieving family to promote a false narrative. Those intrepid, upstanding anonymous reporters at propaganda rags!

That article is an object lesson in why you shouldn't fish "news" out of the toilet.

Archive

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Are you calling The Intercept toilet news?

Internal critics worry that the article is another “Caliphate”-level journalistic debacle “There seems to be no self-awareness at the top,” said one frustrated Times editorial staffer. “The story deserved more fact-checking and much more reporting. All basic standards applied to countless other stories.”

critics have highlighted major discrepanciesin the accounts presented in the Times, subsequent public comments from the family of a major subject of the article denouncing it, and comments from a key witness in a new tab seeming to contradict a claim attributed to him in the article.

New York Times was using ZAKA as evidence, The guys who made up the 40 beheaded babies.

You prominently feature testimony by Yossi Landau, Southern Commander of the ZAKA organization.

Were you aware, as (censored site) documented, that Landau’s previous claims of having seen beheaded babies and a fetus cut from a dead woman’s womb on October 7 have been discredited not only by the Israeli newspaper by Haaretz, but by the Biden White House, which retracted the president’s claim that he had seen photographs of beheaded babies? In fact, only one baby is recorded among those killed on October 7, which means any claim to have seen multiple dead babies must be dismissed out of hand.

Go read the original article debunking NYT. It's not some random with wild claims. Everything is backed up with links and videos. "Screams without proof".

More and more reporters are coming out right now backing it up.

[–] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca -2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I'm calling the propaganda outlet I'm not naming a toilet. Are you even reading my posts?

The 40 beheaded babies claim is a long-debunked myth and a claim never made by either the Israeli government or the IDF. It began and spread on social media.

The unsupported claim about dozens of child beheadings gained traction after live news reports from Nicole Zedeck, a correspondent for Israel-based i24NEWS, who was reporting from the scene of an attack near the Israel-Gaza border. In videos the news service posted to X on Oct. 10, Zedeck said Israeli soldiers told her what they witnessed.

In one clip, she said “about 40 babies at least,” who were dead, according to a commander, “were taken out on gurneys.” In another clip, she said babies had “their heads cut off, they said” – but she never mentioned a number.

The claim about “40 babies beheaded” appears to be a combination of those two separate details that Zedeck relayed during the live broadcasts. She did not make that claim herself, as the social media video wrongly asserts.

That Intercept article is hyperbolic and editorializes like crazy. The Daily "going to press" on a single episode with something that could be proven untrue after further investigation is nothing like Caliphate except for it being a podcast. Caliphate was a feature 12-episode documentary series that had serious reporting errors. Comparing those two things is NY Post-level tabloid reporting. It was reasonable for them not to record it but the Times' follow-up report says that they confirmed their initial reporting and debunked the propaganda article. The only issue left in that article is one witness -- and, again, they interviewed 150 people for that investigation -- who later said that he couldn't be sure if it was Hamas or non-Hamas Palestinians who committed sex crimes because civilians crossed over after the military collapsed. He didn't change his story about what he saw. That doesn't dramatically change the reporting, let alone "debunk" it.

Go read the original article debunking NYT.

I literally just told you why that article is bullshit in the last post. The family that is the focus of that article disputes the article. They DO NOT renounce the article. They DO NOT believe that they were misled. Miral Alter wrote a post because she was confused and wanted to protect her sister. She quickly took it down, a detail the article omitted when they published it anyway. They didn't contact her to find out why she had removed it because they didn't care if they were misrepresenting her. She's upset that they used her to construct a false narrative about sexual violence. In spite of this, they haven't issued a correction or retraction. The headline and subheading of that article are both the polar opposite of the truth. But they don't care. The point was constructing that false narrative, not telling the truth. That's why they have a terrible reputation. That's why the article was removed whenever it was posted. It's garbage.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I think you're talking about the initial Mondoweiss article which purely focused on Miral. That was bad for NYT but not nearly as extensive.

Around a week after that "Lies without proof" dropped which NUKED The New York Times article proving many key "witnesses" were lying ZAKA style. Another example:

You describe a 24-year-old accountant identified as “Sapir” as “one of the Israeli police’s key witnesses.”

Yet one of Sapir’s key claims undermines the rest of her testimony. According to the Times, “she saw three other women raped and terrorists carrying the severed heads of three more women.”

Given that no record exists of women being beheaded on October 7, why did you include this claim from Sapir? Does such an assertion not undermine her credibility and raise doubts about the rest of her testimony? And why, at minimum, did you not mention that there is no forensic evidence to support Sapir’s claim?

I urge you to read the Lies without proof article. It's damning for NYT.

[–] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

That is from a source even worse than the first. They are liars and propagandists. That's the reason no one credible is reporting it. They're known for publishing propaganda, conspiracies, and fraudulent claims.

Everyone "debunking" this has a reputation for publishing lies. But you don't seem to draw any conclusions from the fact that every place you find this "proof" turns out to be a toilet. You don't believe it because they're credible people making credible claims but because they're telling you what you want to hear.

If there were credible claims they would be EVERYWHERE. It's a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist writing for the New York fucking Times. The story would be bigger than the original. Look up the Jayson Blair scandal. Dozens of news organizations were still talking about it more than a decade later.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Nice you didn't address any of the posted evidence debunking NYT. Even quoted some for you. But you quickly ignored it.

Quick dodge on that one. Result to the classic adhom.

Even people working at NYT are less in denial than you.

Their podcast gets broadcasted nationwide on radio, it's a pretty big deal if even those people are saying "yeah that rape article was fake".

[–] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Friends don't make friends fish in the sewer for truthy nugs.

You didn't post evidence. If you come across some I'd be happy to but I don't fact check propaganda. I'm not gonna spend hours of my life fact-checking some garbage written by a guy who writes for two propaganda networks for an authoritarian regime. I already know it's bullshit.

If you had any media literacy skill you would too.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

Propaganda slurping isn't media literacy. NYT isn't Jesus dude. The article didn't even get verified by other staff. Only the Pullitzer Pope was allowed to manufacture consent for Genocide.

The debunking article uses official claims from the IDF themselves to show that the witnesses statements are factually false.

If you dare to read and address any of what's false in it I'll respond. This bad faith denial shtick you have going is pointless.