this post was submitted on 23 Jan 2024
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Critique (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
 

I literally do blame the Democrats for Trump, and if you don't, you weren't paying attention.

Plenty of us were critiquing Clinton's campaign on those merits and were consistently talked down to in shocker the same way we're being talked down to now. Shocker, she lost. I remember saying a few weeks before the election "We're about to get Brexited." I put my vote down for Clinton, because Trump is fucking insane, and that was clear before he was President. It was clear in the fucking 1980's.

Being able to critique our leaders is supposed to be what is the difference between us and conservative voters. They're the cult who unquestioningly believes all the bullshit that comes out of Trump's mouth and diapers. I find it weird that people think we should be more like them in regards to our leaders like that would be a good thing.

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[–] jenny_ball@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

didn't she also illegally sabotage Bernie?

[–] GreatCornolio@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The primaries were rigged against Bernie so the insider's pick would be on the democratic ticket, yes

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 9 months ago (4 children)

But unfortunately, not illegal because they're a private club, so they can make their own rules.

They literally argued in court it was legal for them to just smoke cigars in back rooms and choose the candidate, and that we should be happy that we even get sham proceedings.

They didn't argue that they didn't tip the scales for Clinton in court because discovery would have shown that wasn't true.

If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table.

They couldn't pound the facts so they pounded the law.

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[–] Habahnow@sh.itjust.works 10 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I mean, Trump won prettily handily against the other Rupublican's is my recollection. I can agree that Clinton and her campaign wanted to face him, and helped, but I think it still would have been Clinton vs Trump regardless. I think blaming Democrats for Trump is similar to blaming Trump for Covid: Yeah he made the US response worse, leading to unnecessary deaths, but Covid was still going to affect the nation and people were going to die regardless.

I mean there's an increasingly muddied line between critiquing the potential president, and supporting their opponent. Russia is almost certainly trying to push the latter here in Lemmy and everywhere else. It worked amazingly well in 2016 and they're hoping they can repeat that for this election. With so much of that propaganda they're pushing, people do get defensive about critiquing Biden. Sometimes rightfully so ("Biden is supporting genocide in Gaza, we need to vote 3rd party or Republican so the Democrats can change") other times its not warranted ("Biden needs to fix his response to Israel to not turn off voters to him").

Critique all you like. You're allowed too. But I feel a lot of people draw the line at encouraging voting 3rd party, not voting or voting for Trump for this election. There may be a D candidate that's more favorable than Biden, but statistically, the incumbent has better odds at winning reelection than losing. I'd much rather ensure that Trump doesn't get reelected, rather hoping a new candidate is not only better than Biden, but also able to beat Trump.

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[–] Delta_V@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago (10 children)

Critiquing Democrats is not an endorsement of Republicans

OK.
Just be aware that doing so publicly, especially around election time, increases the probability of Republicans getting elected. So ask yourself if its the right time and place - regardless of what your intentions are, what sort of effects will your actions actually cause in the world?

IMO, the best time and place to make your opinion on Democratic policy known is the Democratic primary election and who you choose to help campaign for the primaries.

[–] Facebones@reddthat.com 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

How many decades now have democrats been 3 steps less right than Republicans running on nothing but "We're not Republicans?"

They've had plenty of time to get it together but instead they slither further and further right to sate "centrists" (that were never going to vote dem anyway.) Meanwhile, everybody shrieks that dems are the only line between us and fascism as they fascism all over their voters at the dnc and Biden sidesteps congress to fund genocide.

Sounds fascist to me. 🤷

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[–] MudMan@kbin.social 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Ah, yes, the fallacy where the Republicans are the de facto winners and the election is only up to what the Democrats do.

I mean, yeah, they ran a mediocre campaign, but there is a difference between "critiquing our leaders" and literally campaigning against them, and leftist in general have a hard, hard, HARD time with that one. Critique is for when you're in power. You analize, you apply your newfound political power to create pressure, you postmortem what went wrong. Campaigns are for winning.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (14 children)

And every year we're told it's "not the time to critique the Democrats" because its "too close to an election."

Dude, I'm pushing fucking fifty and this has been every year of my fucking life with this "this is not the time for critique" shit. When is gonna be a good time to critique them? Because it sure fucking feels like the argument is never or this wouldn't have been going on since fucking Bill Clinton left the Presidency.

[–] Lonewolfmcquade@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

THIS. I feel this. If I could super-upvote, I would. The same argument is deployed towards anyone voting 3rd party. The argument that ranked choice voting is the solution to a lot of problems, is valid. But we are never going to get that either so long as we keep diligently voting for the less evil between two parties. Seems like "never" is the answer to the question of when a lot of imperative, necessary, vital change is going to happen.

Given this dynamic, I can understand how anyone who has been paying attention, becomes disillusioned with our system and votes immorally just to encourage some change, even if it's making things worse. I don't condone it, but I see it happening and I can understand why

[–] squiblet@kbin.social 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

After an election seems like a good time to discuss what to do differently next time.

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[–] bstix@feddit.dk 7 points 9 months ago

Trump won because he embraced the "fuck it all" voters.

.. and there are a lot of those.

I'd like to see Biden address them, and he probably already did, we just didn't hear about it because the media turned down his microphone years ago. He needs to show his balls on TV to get attention.

[–] unreasonabro@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

So that presents an interesting perspective. All this shit is happening, then, because some arrogant Republican state officials were miffed Hilary snubbed their state entirely (another profoundly arrogant move, admittedly) and used that and their naive 2015 perspective to essentially doom the entire fucking world to this incredibly horrible shitshow we're all being treated to round 2 of as though it was their right to put it on the schedule.

"Democracy".

Sounds like everyone involved has had their job for entirely too long, no doubt decades too long in some cases.

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