this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
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A YouTuber was accused of plagiarism. His apology highlighted a larger issue among creators. (www.nbcnews.com)
submitted 10 months ago by alyaza@beehaw.org to c/humanities@beehaw.org
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[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (8 children)

This whole thing is wild.

I honestly can't fully feel good about HBomberGuy's video. While it was important to point out a prominent plagiarist. While HBomberGuy always starts off his videos as "don't attack this person." Realistically his fans always seem to show up and bash on the person he's exposing or attacking. ~~He's kind of being a bully. I mean, a bully with a decent reason, but still a bully.~~ Thinking about it, bully isn't the right term here.

Content Warning: Mental Health, Suicide.
My biggest concern is that James Somerton doesn't seem like the most stable person, admitting he just got out of the hospital. Taking that in good faith it could mean that this event drove him to do something to put himself in there. I question if Hbomber's next video might cause someone to take their own life. Someone who can't handle the influx of hate from a community much bigger than theirs. James Somerton only had 330 subs, a 4th of what Hbomerguy has. You are then dealing with an influx of people that is potentially as big as your community all angry at you. Many people have taken their own lives or attempted to because of these exact reasons. Maybe I don't see it but it doesn't feel like Hbomberguy is considering this as a factor in his videos.

[–] ranandtoldthat@beehaw.org 72 points 10 months ago (3 children)

This is the most radical centrist take I've heard yet. The idea that exposing immoral acts is worse than the acts.

[–] squirrel@lemmy.blahaj.zone 39 points 10 months ago

Yeah, what is anyone supposed to do with Somerton besides calling him out? Ask him politely to please don't plagiarise and scam people anymore?

Half of Hbomberguy's video is about Somerton having been accused of plagiarism for a long time and Somerton just kept doing it. Beside the fact that the very first anecdote about Somerton in the video is about him sending his fans after someone who dared to point out plagiarism, accusing them of doxxing him and sending him threats without any hint of that ever happening.
Somerton had no qualms to resort to harassment if it suited him.

Dog knows social media is a toxic hellhole which thrives on malice and there will always be enough toxic people out there to harass people for whatever reason they can find (and often flimsy pretext), but to insist that the existence of these people precludes exposing wrong-doing, ultimately means that nobody can ever warn anybody else of scammers and grifters like James Somerton.

[–] millie@beehaw.org 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Honestly, I feel like this concept is what underpins a lot of why society doesn't change. Sometimes you get more stink-eye from people rocking the boat trying to bail it out than you do from putting a literal hole on the floor and sitting on the bucket.

We need to be brave enough to save the things we value.

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying I can't feel good about the video. In fact, I covered this in my original comment. It needed to be done in some way but I am not sure it's the right way.

[–] alyaza@beehaw.org 47 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

i mean. what is the right way to deal with a dude whose entire career is literally built on flagrant stealing, plagiarism, and copyright infringement but whose circumstances make it so that it's nearly impossible to bring him to a court of law and, even if you did, whose finances and job make it exceedingly unlikely he will ever be able to financially remedy the damages he's done to said people?

[–] TheRtRevKaiser@beehaw.org 12 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Yeah I'm with you, I don't think there was a better way to do this (and it needed to be done). I don't think Hbomberguy did anything wrong. But the whole episode has just left me (personally) feeling bad and I don't love how much joy some folks seem to be getting watching somebody get taken apart. Not accusing anybody in this thread of that, I've just seen it in other places.

[–] Kbin_space_program@kbin.social 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's a thief getting their illicit empire taken apart. No sympathy warranted.

It's one thing to steal from the big megacorps. They deserve it because they steal, lie and cheat everyone.

It's a different thing entirely to cheat and steal from independent journalists like James Sommerton did.

[–] TheRtRevKaiser@beehaw.org 11 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I'm not sure that I agree that we should dehumanize people just because the do something wrong or commit a crime. I think all sorts of people deserve sympathy, even those that have done wrong. I'm not saying at all that Somerton shouldn't have to face the consequences of his actions or that what is happening to him is worse than what he did to others, but I don't think that justice and empathy are mutually exclusive.

[–] Kbin_space_program@kbin.social 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

It's not dehumanizing to say he's a thief.

The entire situation he is in is entirely of his own doing and his own control. he has exclusive agency in all of this.

[–] amio@kbin.social 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

how much joy some folks seem to be getting watching somebody get taken apart

Generally I would agree. In this specific case the video goes into painful detail into exactly how much the guy's screwed over other people. For profit.

"I don't know, I've no bloody sympathy at all." As long as people don't overstep other boundaries (threats or whatever - edit: the ones he made up obviously don't count) he deserves every last crumb of vitrol headed his way. Pathetic, scamming, ineptly plagiarizing, opportunistic freaking scumbag that he is.

[–] LoamImprovement@beehaw.org 7 points 10 months ago

I'm with you. Hbomberguy said it so many times, you don't accidentally steal someone else's work, and especially not as prolifically as Somerton did. If Somerton wasn't prepared for the consequences of his actions, he shouldn't have stolen literally all his content. And that's not to say that anyone should condone harassment for any reason, but calling someone out on their bullshit isn't harassment.

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, exactly. I don't think I have the answer to that. I mean, I am not even saying it was the wrong way. I just don't feel good about the way taken and I am wondering if there was a better way. That said, something needed to be done and the result is good it seems but it's important to remember everyone is human. Everyone has a soul. Everyone's soul is immeasurably valuable.

[–] HumbleHobo@beehaw.org 13 points 10 months ago

I think the better ways of resolving it were impossible without more involvement from the platform itself. Because it seems that this is just the last of the plagiarism accusations, and just so happened to stick more than the other accusations. It's very likely that had a prominent YouTuber not made a take down video, nobody would have known that this guy and others were plagiarizing anything. And I mean, imagine how the people whom work was stolen for profit are feeling?

[–] ranandtoldthat@beehaw.org 21 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I believe that you don't realize that you are saying that. But you accidentally are. The individual in question targeted and attacked people, smaller creators, that correctly called him out in the past. He abused his weight to hurt people with full knowledge of what he was doing. He plagiarized dozens of people. He scammed thousands of people. He lied to hundreds of thousands of people.

And you're saying he got bullied by Harris. You are (likely unintentionally) implying that many of his victims individual feelings of betrayal are somehow not their own and less valid than the scammers' stated feelings.

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Even re-reading what I said, I don't feel like I come off implying that at all. There needs to be room for conversation on how to handle the situation without saying that the victim's feelings are less valid than the attacker's. If there is a better way to word what I wrote to focus on that then please let me know.

I think TheRtRevKaiser said it best "This last video felt like watching somebody’s life being dismantled [..] honestly the whole thing just kind of made me feel sad, I didn’t get much satisfaction out of it." and that's exactly what I was trying to convey.

[–] ranandtoldthat@beehaw.org 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

And, perhaps separate from my other reply. I'd suggest editing to strike out the accusations of bullying. It's quite an unfair accusation.

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 4 points 10 months ago

Yeah, thinking about it, I don't I meant bullying but more or less an attack. Which is it, but a justified one.

[–] ranandtoldthat@beehaw.org 8 points 10 months ago

I get ya. I don't think there is a real way to feel satisfaction when someone trangresses like this. A sense of justice, one day, perhaps.

That last video was indeed sad, it was good for nobody. I don't envy Mr. Somerton. He, unfortunately, continues to make bad choices, which he puts in full view of the global public. I hope he gets the help he needs. His feelings are valid, and he may need help understanding and processing what he's done and how it's impacted his life. It's probably going to leave an acute trauma, which I don't wish on anyone. It may take years to recover. I also understand that his own feelings don't justify his past miadeeds.

I don't envy his victims either. Those who's work, ideas he plagiarized. Those he scammed. Those he lied to. Their feelings are equally valid. And their voices are numerous. We mustn't try to silence them just because they are numerous.

We'll see what comes from Harris' fund. Maybe that will finally produce a modicum of justice.

Longer term, I hope Mr. Somerton's story can be educational, and make it a bit harder for someone like him to hurt people next time someone tries.

[–] TheRtRevKaiser@beehaw.org 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I can sympathize. I'm not sure I agree with you that Hbomb did anything wrong, but I did leave that video feeling pretty shitty in general. With the Tommy Tallarico thing it was so absurd and Tallarico is such a huge figure that it was just kind of funny, but this last video felt like watching somebody's life being dismantled. It needed to be done, because Somerton was hurting folks and being dishonest. And I'm not sure that somebody with less clout than Hbomberguy could have done it. There were several examples of smaller creators calling Somerton out with little to no effect other than getting backlash from Somerton's fans. But honestly the whole thing just kind of made me feel sad, I didn't get much satisfaction out of it.

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I’m not sure I agree with you that Hbomb did anything wrong

I mean, I hope I don't come off as saying he did anything wrong. Just that it didn't feel good.

this last video felt like watching somebody’s life being dismantled.

This is exactly what I mean. Like in the end, I want to imagine that James Somerton doesn't harbor any resentment or hate towards HBomberGuy because I feel like they both want the same thing. They both want to write awesome content and great video essays about interesting things. Overall, I hope James turns it around.

[–] GammaGames@beehaw.org 28 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

FWIW I don’t disagree with you, especially on the second paragraph. The direction of punching feels unavoidably lopsided.

But… Somerton and his fans had harassed and silenced others when called out for this type of behavior before. The only real difference here is that HBomb is big enough that isn’t feasible to whine and shout the criticism away. Plus all the evidence!

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

That's a great point too and does sway me a bit to feeling better about this all. Just feels like a huge bummer. But maybe it's a huge bummer that James needed to turn it around and be better.

[–] dubteedub@beehaw.org 27 points 10 months ago (3 children)

What would you have expected as an alternative? What other way could the plagiarism have been addressed? It had been brought up in multiple other instances over the last year and James brushed it off saying it was not true and led harassment campaigns against those that questioned if he had stolen others work.

Frankly, I do not believe James' woe is me bit is anything other than an act and emotional manipulation of his audience. He still has thousands of subscribers on Patreon and it is to his personal benefit to keep them as in the dark as possible or to believe that he is still deserving of their money and attention. If he does have mental health issues stemming from this, then he should have just deleted all his accounts, accepted responsibility from his actions, and moved on to something else and work on his mental health.

James also did not only have 300 subscribers. He had almost 3,500 on Patreon. He was raking in tens of thousands of dollars per month using stolen work.

https://graphtreon.com/creator/jamessomerton

[–] CalOtsu@kbin.social 9 points 10 months ago

I guess I'm just cynical because the way he "apologized" and came back was called like play for play for how to do a fake YouTube apology/comeback. I just find it so hard to feel sympathy for the man or believe anything he says with what he's done (not accused cause there were screenshots in that video) outside of just being a huge YouTube grifter.

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

If he does have mental health issues stemming from this, then he should have just deleted all his accounts, accepted responsibility from his actions, and moved on to something else and work on his mental health.

I mean, I think he's done that. He's deactivated his Patreon, deleted his YouTube channel, and said that he'll comment more when his mental health is better. Maybe I am a soft-hearted fool but it sounds like he's done just that.

That said it's important to remember everyone is human and makes mistakes.

As for what I'd do differently. I don't know, I don't think anything else could have been done differently I supposed but it just feels not great.

[–] alyaza@beehaw.org 18 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I mean, I think he’s done that. He’s deactivated his Patreon, deleted his YouTube channel, and said that he’ll comment more when his mental health is better. Maybe I am a soft-hearted fool but it sounds like he’s done just that.

that's being fairly charitable to him, i think--he reactivated his patreon when he dropped the now deleted "i'm sorry" video and based on that and the content of his video it seems like he was planning a monetized comeback (to ostensibly pay into Hbomb's financial damage fund) before overwhelming backlash made him scurry back into the shadows and close it again

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Yeah, that gave me a good bit to think about. I came to the conclusion that what James should do is on a video by video basis, ask the creators he stole from if they want his video back up with all the proceeds going to them and with credit given in whatever way they would like. Essentially giving his fan base a path back to the original creators. For his patreon, it should be fully deleted, perhaps with just a note that attempts to get those who subbed back to the original creators as well.

[–] millie@beehaw.org 5 points 10 months ago

Okay, sure. Forgiveness is important. But, like, first let's get the situation remedied. Step 1 isn't let's immediately forgive them without saying anything. Step 1 is holy shit look at all this blatant plagiarism going on, let's make sure people know this is happening so that the original creators can avoid having their work stolen.

Like, yeah, this guy and all the other plagiarists are people. So are all the people they're stealing from. Getting the word out and not dwelling on what they did forever aren't mutually exclusive.

You can set a boundary and forgive someone without letting go of that boundary.

[–] urist@lemmy.blahaj.zone 26 points 10 months ago

While HBomberGuy always starts off his videos as "don't attack this person." Realistically his fans always seem to show up and bash on the person he's exposing or attacking.

This is a problem with internet culture in general, tbh. If anything, hbomb is one of the good guys out there that is pretty careful about how he talks about these things.

He's kind of being a bully.

Nah. What I noticed about hbomb is that he generally avoids talking about people’s appearances, and avoids judging folks for who they are as people. He also tries to give people the benefit of the doubt (including the writer for Somerton’s channel, which… idk, not sure how the writer could have not noticed all the plagerism but whatever).

Basically, Hbomberguy focused on this guys actions and words. It didn’t feel like bullying at all. It would be different if this was a small creator and/or if this dude was doing it for free. But, that’s not the case; Somerton was making money plagiarizing other people’s work and got lots of subscribers for it.

Somertons channel was about queer issues. I’m sure he’s at least somewhat prepared for online harassment or he wouldn’t have chosen to be a content “creator” on that topic. Doing shitty things on the internet draws heat, too, and it feels somewhat earned this time. Wish people were nicer online overall but hbomb did nothing wrong calling this guy out.

TL;DR, talking about someone else’s bad (and public) behavior isn’t bullying, as long as you’re not picking on some lil guy.

[–] Zellith@kbin.social 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

"330 subs". You talk as though 330,000 subscribers is a small number. To your other points, I figure most of the anger towards somerton is going to come from his own community and not people from hbomberguys community. (In fact IIRC Somerton was getting a lot of backlash on his pateron on day 1 of this story breaking). Perhaps Somerton shouldnt have plagarised and lied to people? Maybe?

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 3 points 10 months ago

Of course not, it's insane to think I don't place blame on him. To be clear, I do and his actions aren't excusable by any means. While you are right, 330k subs is not a little amount but it's about scales of community management. Maybe that's somewhat the goal though. The community that is pointing out the flaws needs to be larger than the community defending them. Perhaps that's exactly what needed to happened as people have pointed out that other smaller youtubers tried to create issues and James was very much lambasting them and undermining their message.

[–] jarfil@beehaw.org 7 points 10 months ago
  • 1st rule of YouTube: make money.
  • 2nd rule of YouTube: don't break the law
  • Not a rule of YouTube: be nice
  • Not a rule of YouTube: don't lie

Somerton followed rule 1, HBomberGuy also followed rule 2 and... hopefully didn't lie?

As for the content warning section, the simple rule is: don't base your world on lies upon lies, and it won't come crashing down when someone exposes them.

[–] flora_explora@beehaw.org 4 points 10 months ago

Other people already gave you on why it's not hbomberguy's fault and I don't have anything to add to that.

But I think maybe it would help you figure out, what you are sad about or what you feel bad for? And maybe this hasn't anything to do with hbomberguy? What I mean is, maybe you are seeing Somerton, his mental health problems, his situation and feeling bad for him. And I get it, I feel bad for his situation, too. But being raised by narcissists and having been in a long term relationship with an abusive chronic liar, I know that feeling bad for someone like this won't help neither you, the other person or anyone they've harmed. It only gives them more fuel to keep on continuing like they've done before. I don't know how to deal best with people like this apart from setting boundaries and keeping my distance. If you're only forgiving without setting boundaries, they will abuse and exploit you. James Somerton was already a mess before he was called out, now he has to face the consequences for his harmful actions and it is hard on everybody. But better to call him out and make him stop his abuse than keep going. You can have empathy with perpetrators but it doesn't help with making them stop.

[–] amio@kbin.social 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

What a load of waffle. "Appeared to" lift verbatim passages, really?

[–] alyaza@beehaw.org 16 points 10 months ago (1 children)

this is just legal ass-covering and is typical of news coverage in the absence of a conviction or similar--nothing new or unique about it.

[–] millie@beehaw.org 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I mean, yes and no. Is it probably safer to say 'accused'? Sure. Is it weasely, waffley bullshit to spend as much time as they did on the specifics of the apology, but completely gloss over the specifics of the accusations? Absolutely.

Anyone reading that article could easily come out of it thinking that the guy's being accused of doing a bad job of citing his sources. Anyone who watched the actual video has seen the evidence that he did it knowingly and with intent.

It's absolutely some false neutrality nonsense where they hold back the meat in order to make the story seem 'neutral' when the truth is clearly not.

[–] alyaza@beehaw.org 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

i mean i think the more likely explanation for any weirdness of that sort is just that this is a very low-stakes story for NBC. what is essentially Youtube drama just isn't the wheelhouse i expect them to send their best to cover, or in which i think anyone is going to super care what "side" they take or how they present it.

[–] millie@beehaw.org 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I don't mean to say that false neutrality is some sort of conspiracy or something on behalf of NBC to protect their bottom line. I think it's something lazy writers do to protect themselves when they're doing surface-level stories about things they didn't bother to spend much time researching. They probably don't know the specifics of the accusations because they were buried in a 3 hour long video.

If you don't bother researching something, it makes sense to hedge a bit if you have to stake your reputation on it. On the one end you get a kind of weak article like this, but on the other you could end up at the center of something nasty. Of course all of that could be remedied with a smidge of journalistic integrity but 🤷‍♀️

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 2 points 10 months ago

🤖 I'm a bot that provides automatic summaries for articles:

Click here to see the summaryTwo weeks after accusations of plagiarism rocked many in the YouTube community, a creator who was at the center of the controversy spawned even more backlash after he deleted an apology video within hours of having posted it.

Somerton — whose subscriber count dropped to 255,000 on YouTube — went silent online, hid all his videos from public view and deactivated his presence on Patreon, a platform where supporters could pay him monthly subscription fees from $20 to $100.

Many online said Somerton’s apology fell flat — they pointed out that he never used the words “plagiarism” or “plagiarized.” He also didn’t describe the full extent of what he was accused of.

Although Patreon is not a body that determines the ownership or settles disputes, when we receive complete DMCAs from creators, we act on them.”

Before he deleted the apology video, Somerton had restored his Patreon account, which alarmed other YouTube creators, who spoke out urging people to cancel their subscriptions before they got charged again.

Brewis said in his video that he would give any money he made from ads that ran on his YouTube exposé to the creators who were plagiarized, who included journalists and writers.

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