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And this moral high horse logic is exactly why vegans get the reputation they do.
Abolitionists had a similar reputation in the 1700s and early 1800s - slavery in the US couldn't be abolished, it was crazy to call for a total ban, reasonable people could compromise, etc. And we all know how that ended.
Change starts with people who refuse to compromise their morals, no matter the social or legal consequences.
Veganism needs proud vegans.
And in my opinion that's fine, I can honestly understand the vegan view point, and how frustrating it is to see other living beings being exploited for our gain. There is a difference between what you are describing and people who make every effort to make snotty self righteous remarks every chance they get.
At that point it isn't even about the movement anymore, it's about the individual saying these things to feel morally superior to others. They are not helping by reminding their friend that is eating an ice cream that the cow was kidnapped and raped unprompted. They gain nothing by doing that except boosting their own ego and likely making their friend unwilling to hear their view point in the future.
Why don't I gain anything by it?
How is it not helping to remind them where the ice cream came from, since they obviously forgot if they're complaining about it to a vegan.
And what makes you assume moral superiority? You said yourself that you understand how frustrating it is for us to hear about animals being exploited. That's where the joke comes from. People unthinkingly doing wrong and expecting us to say nothing.
They are not helping by reminding their friend that is eating an ice cream that the cow was kidnapped and raped unprompted.
I disagree. Shame teaches. So does peer pressure.
If the non-vegan friend stops eating animal products around their vegan friend, that's a small win. If that makes them think about why the vegan friend is so outspoken about their moral boundaries, that's a bigger win. If the vegan friend's public assertion of their moral boundary makes other vegans more willing to speak up in public, that's also a bigger win.
And if the non-vegan cuts ties with the vegan because they value eating animals more than respecting their friend's moral boundaries, that's not a loss for veganism, because the non-vegan will keep eating exactly as many animals as they would have otherwise.
Veganism is an activist movement, not just a lifestyle. And if you're afraid to speak up for what you believe you're not being activist.
It sounds a lot like you want us to be silent so you don't have to think about it.
Most people intellectually understand that torturing and killing animals is wrong and they don't want to do it. But they can put it into the back of their minds unless the vegans in their life remind them of what they look like to us.
And personally, I firmly believe that getting those little reminders from my friends added up over years for me until I realized it was worth it to make the change.
I don't want you to be silent, I do lots of thinking about it as is and have had discussions with vegans before. I don't mind doing that, and neither did they.
My point is there's a difference between reminders and making off hand dismissive, self congratulatory remarks.
To be fair, I'm sure if an alien race were to do that to us, they would justify it to us and offer us an out, unless they just needed to farm us like we do for bacteria for producing antibiotics
And your cry baby wah wah comment is why carnists get the reputation they do.
Yeah it's possible I'll visit your community. Although, I am not normally a debatebro, I just didn't want OP to be only getting negative responses to the post especially right at the start, when posting here.
Late reply. Sorry. Try walking into a slaughterhouse at night and smellin the flesh blood and fear of a hundred screaming slaves. There’s no rhetoric or high horses. This is the most widespread horror the world has ever seen. Fuck your attitude.
My argument has never been that we can't treat living things better during their living years. You can make good points and still be insufferable about it. Fuck your attitude.
I mean it's a good way to lose friends and fail to convince people to become vegan
Depends on what OP means by being mean. I read it as the sometimes sardonic remarks that are almost compelled from us when they want to discuss their carnist lifestyle around us or to us as though we are just gonna be like "you be you".
I feel ya.
The other day my friend was complaining that his ice cream he had delivered was melted. And I was like "Aw man. They raped a mother and killed her calf to make that ice cream for you and you didn't even get to enjoy it cold". He just rolled his eyes at me but yea, like sorry I'm not sorry lol.
Yeah, this is pretty much exactly what I do. People get uncomfortable for a second, but I feel like I have to remind them what their actions look like from my perspective. I've realized that if I don't make jokes, they just never think about it!
Read this as Norwegian, was slightly confused.
They're mean to animals, absolutely deserved
this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2023
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