“But we have to determine if he [Will McDonald] was justified in doing what he did"
Really. Are we relieving shooters of the burden of making sure of what they're shooting at or do we just give people a pass?
this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2023
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Forget making sure, even if it WERE a car prowler, that's still not a justified use of force.
https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/stand-your-ground-in-nebraska
"Nebraska does not have a stand your ground law. State law explicitly imposes a duty to retreat before resorting to deadly force outside the home.2"
https://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=28-1409
"The use of deadly force is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself or herself against death or serious bodily harm unless the actor knows that he or she can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating. Newton v. Huffman, 10 Neb. App. 390, 632 N.W.2d 344 (2001)."
Thanks.
I really don’t like the trend in some states that people seem to be able to kill over theft, or even arguing over a parking space. It’s nuts how little life is worth.
I work in 911 dispatch, so I often get to spend a large portion of my night listening to the absolute dumbest reasons imaginable that people get into fights, and an amazing of them could be avoided by someone just walking the fuck away or closing a door.
A couple of highlights
I get a call from a very angry person. They wanted to park in a space that someone else was parked in. Other party was sitting in their car. This wasn't reserved or permit parking or a private lot or anything of the sort, just public street parking in a fairly busy downtown area, and I don't think it was even time restricted or metered or anything like that. Caller had asked them (and from their tone with me, I suspect they didn't ask politely) to move so they could park there. Person sitting in the car told them to say please. They get into a bit of a shouting match, and I end up having to send a cop out to get 2 grown ass adults to say "please and thank you" to each other and explain what street parking is. I'm tempted to side with the person in the parked car because the caller was an asshole to me, but the truth is they both suck, either one of them could have just driven away at any time and not had to make it anyone else's problem.
Another one was a domestic. We got calls from both parties, my caller was inside the house, their ex was outside, and they were arguing through the open door. I get all the info I need, told them to close the door and stop arguing with their ex and just wait inside until the cops got there, and went on to answer my next call. Couple minutes later I see that we now have EMS going to the house. Apparently at some point after I ended my call, they opened the door to continue arguing and got pepper sprayed. Wouldn't have happened if they just kept the damn door closed like I told them to.
Another time my caller had just gotten off of a bus and was following a group of teenagers who had threatened him with a knife on the bus. I told him to stop following them because they have a fucking knife. This bonehead tells me it's ok because he has a knife too. Motherfucker, I don't want any of you idiots getting stabbed. They're walking away, let them walk away. If you have the option to not get into a knife fight, take that option. Especially don't get into a knife fight with a bunch of teenagers.
Those are probably the most obviously insane ones, but I'm pretty hard-pressed to think of more than a handful of disturbances or domestics I've had where both parties were totally unable to separate from each other. Close your door, go to your separate rooms, roll up your windows, just fucking leave and go for a walk or a drive, whatever it takes, just stop escalating the situation.
There are some times where standing your ground can be justified, but I think there's far more cases where people should have a duty to retreat instead.
I am in my apartment and hearing banging and yelling. Come out and my neighbor is in the hallway. Banging on his door demanding his gf let him in. Shows me his watch and said they had an argument and she smashed it. We talk for a bit and I suggest he spend the night with a relative even offering to drive him. He doesn't want to, wants to continue to bang on the door and resume the fight. I get frustrated and tell him (this is as best as I can remember it) "you are a 19 year old black kid having a domestic with like 40 people who can hear you. How do you think this is going to go for you when someone gets angry enough to call 9-1-1? And lord fucking help you if one of those drug sniffing dogs barks one time. Now do you want to continue in this hallway until that happens or do you want to chill with me until your grandmother picks you up?"
What is wrong with people? Take a walk and calm down before it gets out of hand.
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“But we have to determine if he [Will McDonald] was justified in doing what he did"
The kid was coming right at him! /s
How could he be justified in doing what he did (which is shooting his child), he's not a police officer. Usually only rhey get away with stuff like this.
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Every gun owner thinks they're a responsible gun owner.
"The boy’s 47-year-old father, Will McDonald, faces a charge of criminal homicide and possession of a firearm by a prohibited person, according to police."
Doesn't look like he's even supposed to be a gun owner.
It doesn't matter, the pro-gun community will hook them up with either private sales that don't require a background check or an infinite supply of poorly secured firearms.
After all, executing your family shouldn't just be for legal gun owners.
Too bad it's only for something as arbitrary as a criminal record, and not for something certain like the inherent frailty and instability of all humankind.
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He said investigators were still working to “figure out” if McDonald may have mistaken his own son for a car thief. Douglas County Attorney Don Kleine said formal charges could be filed as soon as Sunday.
“It’s obviously very tragic,” Kleine said. “But we have to determine if he [Will McDonald] was justified in doing what he did. . . . At this point in time, it doesn’t appear that he was justified in firing.”
Is this real? Did I just eat the onion?
This is America
Smell that freedom, baby.
Don't want to be a parent anymore? Just pretend you thought your kid was breaking into the house or something absurd like that, and it'll be a-okay. Just an accident.
Stand Your Ground Or I Will Turn This Car Around
More guns than brains.
Sad for the kid and his family.
That's important to figure out because it impacts the kind of charges they are going to press. There are different degrees of murder.
If the guy planned on killing his son, that's first degree murder. If he mistook the kid for a car thief that's second degree murder or depending on the exact circumstances maybe just manslaughter. And even with manslaughter the exact circumstances change it between voluntary and involuntary.
So let's not get our pitchforks out for the police doing their work right (for once).
So why does a potential car thief even be shot. Maybe let the police and later a judge handle thieves and not take justice into your own hands.
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Given family holidays can be very stressful and violent in bad families, I have to wonder if that poor kid said something dad didn't like, or cried, or whined, or otherwise was a completely normal kid and the dad lost his shit and shot him for it. Then came up with "I thought I saw a thief!" to get away with it.
Like, everyone in this thread is assuming the dad actually heard a thief. But I think that should be questioned, too. It's so common for bad families to slap kids around during thanksgiving. My uncle once lost his shit over something stupid and threw his half-paralyzed mom (she'd had a stroke not too long before) out of her chair onto the floor.
There just aren't enough details to say right now. What you're saying is possible definitely but it's impossible to be sure if anything other than a child was killed. Anger is the worst human emotion in my opinion. Seneca calls it a form of temporary madness.
Agreed. I have an anger problem and I hate it. I can remain calm if I'm prepared for it, but if something takes me off gaurd (or I reach peek frustration) I react before I have time to think.
It's super annoying, often embarrassing, and the worst of me. It's like things start happening and my hire-order thinking is just straight-up offline until I've said something horrible, stormed off, or thrown something like a toddler. It's like I have to struggle to catch up to what my body is doing
The only blessing is that I'm physically weak as shit, (and I married a strong man who is chill/non-reactive)
I wish I could rewire my instinct to fight out of me, but meditation makes me fall asleep
any kind of neurodivergent diagnosis? Anger issues happen to most of us I'm afraid.
ADHD- combined tyoe
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Even if it was a thief ending a life is not a proportional response.
Holy fuck. This is peak 'Merica.
Don't call out or anything, Hoss. Just blindly fire at noises and shit.
You should NEVER use a firearm on ANYTHING you cannot identify. If you can't identify it then you shouldn't be willing to destroy it, especially when no threat exists yet.
This man is a fucking coward and a danger to all around him. Put him in fucking prison and toss the key.
Positive identification on your target and what's behind your target.
Every time.
But I don't trust the general public to positively identify a fucking stop sign, let alone a target of a gun.
Agreed. Would love to see stricter control over who is able to drive.
And would also love to see gun ownership in the USA at least start to catch up slightly to vehicle use regulations when it comes to things like licensing and registration.
And insurance.
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Sounds like a traditional american holiday to me.
Firing at a thief sounds weird. You have a party, a bunch of people with you. You can scare them off.
“A burglar! Hold on, let me get my gun.” “Bill, we can all just yell ‘get the fuck out’ at the same time, they’ll probably shit their pants and run.”
Have you ever stolen something? I doubt so (:
A bunch of dudes do make you very uncomfy. Not only they see and remember you, they can run and block you from leaving the scene. They can beat you up. They can hold you before cops would show.
Rule one of stealing is leaving as soon as you are noticed, stakes become too high. Even the dumbest of street theives won't fuck around if you scream aloud about their attempt and have some people to back you up.
possession of a firearm by a prohibited person
So he wasn't allowed to own a firearm?
Why didn't the kid had his own gun for self-protect?
We need to make and sell more guns.
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Welcome to Murkia.
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