this post was submitted on 21 Nov 2023
136 points (95.3% liked)

News

23296 readers
4009 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil

Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.

2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.

Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.

3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.

Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.

4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.

Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.

5. Only recent news is allowed.

Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.

6. All posts must be news articles.

No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.

7. No duplicate posts.

If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.

8. Misinformation is prohibited.

Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.

9. No link shorteners.

The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.

10. Don't copy entire article in your post body

For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
rjc@lemmy.world
Thekingoflorda@lemmy.world
dezmd@lemmy.world
Tenthrow@lemmy.world
JonsJava@lemmy.world
gedaliyah@lemmy.world
Blackbeard@lemmy.world
little_cow@lemmy.world
jeffw@lemmy.world
enu@lemmy.world
136
The Russian economy is in bad shape, no matter what the Kremlin says: Russian economist (www.businessinsider.com)
submitted 1 year ago by Rapidcreek@reddthat.com to c/news@lemmy.world
17 comments fedilink hide all child comments
all 18 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Brainsploosh@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (6 children)

It's hard to gauge the veracity of this during the ongoing information warfare, but one detail struck me as funny:

Around 20 million people in Russia — or 14% of the population — are on the brink of poverty or already in poverty, said Lipsits.

This is supposedly after two years of wars and sanctions.

Official US gov statistics puts the US peacetime number at 11,5 - 12,4 %

The official poverty rate in 2022 was 11.5 percent, with 37.9 million people in poverty. ... The Supplemental Poverty Measure in 2022 was 12.4 percent.

I wonder if this is meant as a disinformation piece?

[–] 768@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Are the stated poverties in the US and Russia of the same poverty definition? If the instrument is for example relative poverty, a reduction of affluence for everyone (eg through reduction of GDP) is not trivially comparable.

I wonder if there's an instrument that combines poverty and debt sustainability as a measure for the sustainability of a society's access to resources.

[–] Fades@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Nah they just wanted to vent emotions instead of actually thinking thru the bullshit they posted.

It is most definitely not the same calculation by far

[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There's poverty and there's Poverty. A quick google suggests Russia and the World Bank define poverty in Russia as having an income of under 10,000 rubles per month. Roughly $110.

I don't think people in the west can grasp what true poverty looks like. We're talking selling your kids, eating tree bark or even cannibalism as was surprisingly widespread during the Cultural Revolution.

Russia's not that bad, especially the larger cities, but some parts of Russia are still really deprived as they never fully recovered from the collapse of the USSR.

I am however surprised that the number's only 14%. I googled and the number was similar a few years ago.

[–] Kbin_space_program@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think the bigger indicator of how bad things are in Russia is that during the initial invasion, Russian troops were confused and delighted by such modern machines as running toilets and washing machines.

[–] Joncash2@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

But that's the point. Russia was doing terrible anyway. Is this new 14% poverty rate any worse than when the war started and they were stealing toilets to begin with.

I mean I have no idea, but this article doesn't show evidence one way or the other.

[–] charliespider@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And that's after throwing thousands of poor people into the meat grinder in Ukraine.

[–] TheMightyCanuck@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Hundreds of thousands*

[–] djsoren19@yiffit.net 2 points 1 year ago

Can't have high poverty rates if you kill all the poor people in your war 🤔

[–] Hotdogman@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Economist is about to get a lesson in freefall aerodynamics.

[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago

Russia has actually been doing a competent job with their financial situation, but they're still trading a better short term situation with a lot of long term problems. I don't know when exactly those will catch up, but they can't push them off forever. Here's more info from William Spaniel.

https://youtu.be/ecdxs8Al424

[–] YeetPics@mander.xyz 2 points 11 months ago

Every hexbear is willing to nuke every civillian on the planet that disagrees.

[–] qdJzXuisAndVQb2@lemm.ee -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Lipsits' comments shed some light on Russia's seemingly resilient wartime economy, which is booming...

Russia's gross domestic product grew 5.5% in the third quarter from a year ago...

But the growth isn't translating into affluence for many Russians on the ground."

Welcome to the fucking club! This could be a description of most G-whatever countries tbh.

[–] Oisteink@feddit.nl 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yep - they’re on par with EU market, or just above. They’re not hurting much more than they previously were.

It’s mock sanctions.

[–] qdJzXuisAndVQb2@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What are you saying?! Shell have had an absolute bumper couple of years! I keep reading promises that Russia's economy is about to collapse, but for realsies this time. Time will tell. Everyone is lying now, we'll see who was right by the end of the decade (probably).

Meanwhile, the instability now is the best thing since sliced COVID for massive wealth transfer from poorer to richer.

[–] Oisteink@feddit.nl 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m saying that the Russian economy expanded just as much as EU economy this year, or maybe a bit more.

[–] qdJzXuisAndVQb2@lemm.ee 0 points 11 months ago

Yes, i agree with you. Or at least, i wouldn't say you can credibly refute our position. You xsn posit and claim, but i believe it's propaganda until the truth comes out over a king time.