I read the article, but it fails to elaborate on how it’s a worst case scenario for Trump.
How does Colorado finding Trump guilty of insurrection, but not barring him from the ballot, hinder him in any meaningful way?
this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2023
72 points (92.9% liked)
News
23275 readers
4007 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
The article is trying to articulate the doctrine of res judicata, which refers to the significance and deference given to the judge's findings of fact as to whether Trump factually incited the mob and intended to disrupt the certification. It found that he did.
As I understand, Trump is a party to the suit and the matter was fully litigated. Non-partys may now use this finding offensively such as in a civil rights case by the deceased capital police officers' families. The issue of whether Trump incited the riot cannot be relitigate. He did, and other courts must now so find. The issue is precluded.
So there might possibly be consequences if someone sues him in Colorado over 1/6, but only if he hasn't been crowned king yet?
Fed court is fed court. Unless the issue was decided on a point of law on which two circuit courts of appeals are split, the preclusive effect should apply in any fed court.
Yeah, sure, we can go with that...
Not a lawyer, and I agree the article is confusing, but my takeaway is that they will appeal to a higher court and the ruling will hurt him there? Maybe it hurts him in other states too. I think the point of the trial is to take this up to the supreme court, and whether he wins or loses, it was destined to escalate to that level.
If somebody wanted to press the issue a SoS in a state would just flat out say he isnt and force the Trump campaign to sue. Force the SC to take it up due to multiple, conflicting rulings/interpretations of the law. That might be the only way to ensure they do it in a timely manner.
That said, i dont have much faith that the SC in its current composition wouldnt just side with Trump immediately.
There may be an injunction or protective order in another jurisdiction preventing additional states from publically releasing opinions on the issue. I think I heard that.
My understanding is that that applies to other state courts making rulings, but i cant see how that apples to apples to Secretaries of State deciding that he is an invalid candidate. Which is why it would possibly force the Trump campaign to sue and push to force the SC to rule on the issue one way or the other. Because if they dont then Trump could remain off the ballot in that state.
I happen to know there are states that have rendered opinions but which are not allowed to release them. I'm not sure why, though. Something about a pending case.
Because the logic the judge used in his favor is that the US president is not an officer of the USA, and that’s a very flimsy argument that probably won’t stand up on appeal.
Maybe because Trump being an insurrectionist becomes an established judgement that can be citied in other cases?
Because the legal reasoning for NOT barring him from the ballot is flawed (she claimed he's not an "officer of the United States") and will almost certainly be overturned on appeal and/or in the Colorado Supreme Court. In essence, the judge set the table for Trump to get screwed.
Still no consequences.
I'm not following how it was a factual finding that he did commit insurrection, the Constitution says people who committed insurrection are barred from office, but the court ruled he should stay on the ballot.
The judge stated that the president is not an "official of the United States" which is obviously flawed. So if/when that flawed decision gets overturned on appeal, he is then off the ballot since the facts have already shown he committed insurrection. It turns out that "factual" findings of a case almost never get overturned on appeal, while "legal" findings of the case often are. In essence, this judge put him in "check" and when the legal finding is overturned it will be checkmate.
It could be a legal technicality like the court saying they find him guilty of insurrection but the plaintiff doesn't have standing or the court doesn't have authority to kick him off the ballot, so they're punting up to a higher court. I wish a legal expert would break it down for us lay people.
I believe the actual reasoning is that that amendment only applies to "officers of the us government", which the president is not... which is a stupid technicality...
Correct. Setting aside other comments made which lead myself and others to argue that this is a bad faith/cowardly ruling, they posit it only covers military officers and legislative representatives to prevent them from being able to serve. Not the executive branch.
They then go on to specify that the Commander in Chief capacity in which Trump served is in he is in charge of the military, but is a representative of the public with the military subordinated to civilian authority. Not as a military officer within the structure of the armed forces.
Therefore, per this very, very pedantic (though arguably technically correct) reading of the law, they are arguing it should not be used to bar him from being on the ballot.
It’s like saying “i dont want any berries in my food” and being served strawberries. Scientifically/technically speaking they do not meet the definition. But in common parlance, understanding, and intention they are understood to be and lumped in with them.
But that's the point. The "stupid technicality" will be what is appealed and, if/when overturned, Trump will be FUBAR.
Maybe because this is simply an attempt to bar him from the primary ballot, and being in the ballot is one thing, but being elected and serving are another.
The judge ruled that the President is not an officer of the Unites States, despite clearly establishing him as the Chief Executive Officer of the Unites States earlier in the case.