this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2023
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Programming

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[–] sirdorius@programming.dev 45 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Why the fuck is a page about fonts using 50% CPU?! Is it mining crypto or something?

[–] dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world 49 points 10 months ago

Average website experience in 2023

[–] dabu@lemmy.world 38 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That's just modern web dev

[–] sirdorius@programming.dev 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I really hope Chrome gets its shit together and stabilizes the chrome.processes API during my lifetime so I or someone can make an extension that autokills or at least warns you about these shitty pages.

[–] dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

No no you see it's the website owners that are the issue because they didn't build the website specifically for chromium browsers /s

[–] elint@programming.dev 32 points 10 months ago

They're pretty fonts and they're released under SIL Open Font License 1.1. I dig it.

[–] qwertyasdef@programming.dev 19 points 10 months ago (3 children)

That texture healing looks super nice. Is that something fonts can just do or does it require special editor support?

[–] autokludge@programming.dev 22 points 10 months ago (3 children)

It's basically a different type of ligature - it is standard to OTF fonts, but requires ligature support in your editor/terminal. Just need to enable ligatures and/or enable specific ligature sets. See https://github.com/githubnext/monaspace#editors or maybe https://wezfurlong.org/wezterm/config/font-shaping.html for the general procedure in a supporting terminal.

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[–] Die4Ever@programming.dev 18 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Texture healing works by finding each pair of adjacent characters where one wants more space, and one has too much. Narrow characters are swapped for ones that cede some of their whitespace, and wider characters are swapped for ones that extend to the very edge of their box. This swapping is powered by an OpenType feature called “contextual alternates,” which is widely supported by both operating systems and browser engines.

Contextual alternates are normally used for certain scripts, like Arabic, where the shape of each glyph depends on the surrounding glyphs. And they are also used for cursive handwriting fonts where the stroke of the “pen” might have different connection points across letters. Texture healing is a novel application of this technology to code.

basically fonts were already capable of using alternate versions of characters based on their nearby characters, so they used that for these fonts to allow for seemingly-dynamic sizing/spacing

[–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 8 points 10 months ago (2 children)

It's an OpenType standard feature but the font rendering system has to support it and the app has to enable it. The page has a link to instructions for enabling it in VS Code but I have no idea about support status on different OS and desktop environments. I could see it working on webview on Android fwiw, I'm guessing it's either well supported in general or at least by browsers.

[–] admiralteal@kbin.social 6 points 10 months ago

Here is the comprehensive editor compatibility list for Fira Code. Should be the same.

[–] aloso@programming.dev 2 points 10 months ago

It is well supported in all browsers and operating systems. At least VS Code and IntelliJ support it, and even some terminals.

[–] jeffhykin@lemm.ee 18 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

I like all of it, except for that awful "texture healing". Imagine having words above & below like

i=mins
w=maxs

But the m's just slightly don't line up because the top one is wider than the bottom one. I'd feel like my editor was gaslighting me 🤢

[–] OmnipotentEntity@beehaw.org 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Here's your code example in the editor. I don't personally think the difference between the 'm's is super noticable. But what did strike me a lot more is the difference in height between the two 'i's in the first line. I think that difference is pretty bad.

[–] murtaza64@programming.dev 9 points 10 months ago (2 children)

It looks like it's not an actual height difference, but the smaller width makes the second i look significantly smaller than the first, also implying a lower height.

[–] OmnipotentEntity@beehaw.org 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

True, they are the exact same height. Holy optical illusion, Batman!

I suppose this is part of what makes font design so difficult.

[–] jeffhykin@lemm.ee 3 points 10 months ago

Welp, another reason I will absolutely not be using glyph-streching or whatever Microsoft called it.

[–] jeffhykin@lemm.ee 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

thanks for rendering that! and yeah that height difference is really weird. That almost seems like a bug.

Also Idk if the ='s make the m smaller or bigger.

If the streching is so small as to be unnoticable (and I agree it's pretty subtle) then I also don't really understand the benefit.

[–] OmnipotentEntity@beehaw.org 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

If the streching is so small as to be unnoticable (and I agree it's pretty subtle) then I also don't really understand the benefit.

Typically, the idea behind this sort of design is that it should be unnoticeable. The motivation is that, with other monospace fonts, the differences in character width, along with the inconsistent spacing and line thicknesses are both noticable and distracting. Some of this badness is avoidable, and this is what this font attempts.

and yeah that height difference is really weird. That almost seems like a bug.

I've been informed, (and had to double check because I didn't believe it,) that the two "i"s are actually the exact same height. The first looking larger than the second is an optical illusion. Font design is hard.

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[–] wethegreenpeople@sopuli.xyz 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

They would still line up, wouldn't they? Or am I misunderstanding how the texture healing would work... Would they not take the same total amount of space?

[–] jeffhykin@lemm.ee 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Each line is the same total length but the "m" in "mi" would be wider than the m in "ma"

[–] muhanga@programming.dev 16 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

And sadly one more font I will never be able to use due to missing support of non-latin characters.

Sadly some features are nice.

[–] ultratiem@lemmy.ca 8 points 10 months ago (3 children)

You'd think after that page of "texture healing", alignment, etc. etc., Microsoft would actually make a fully, complete font first and foremost...

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[–] murtaza64@programming.dev 16 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

I love the idea of using multiple font faces at the same time while looking at code. I wonder if (hope?) terminals will one day soon support switching fonts with control sequences.... Would be pretty awesome!

[–] cd_slash_rmrf@programming.dev 3 points 10 months ago

not sure about escape sequences just yet, but Kitty gives you insane control over font rendering https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/conf/#fonts

[–] killeronthecorner@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

That's actually a really cool idea. Now I hope this too!

[–] admiralteal@kbin.social 15 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I still like Fira Code better. These are really nice and if there was a fast and easy way to implement fonts to my syntax highlighting maybe I'd give it more of a spin, but that seems really annoying to set up and baseline I don't find any of these easier to read than Fira.

[–] silas@programming.dev 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I used to use Fira Code, but my new personal favorite is MonoLisa

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[–] beeng@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

Hmm nothing really jumped out at me at first glance, I don't mind the ligature stuff, but also love monospace for the aesthetic.

But I am glad they're experimenting with this stuff. Ive always wanted a sarcastica font, we're almost there with sArCAsm. But it's a pain to write :)

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[–] codemonk@programming.dev 12 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Technically, font healing is a neat idea. It fails for text that does not meat its requirements, i.e. two 'm' next to each other. Depending on the characters around them, this might create two different 'm'.

This is unavoidable, of course. The only solution are proportional fonts. So font healing is a nice idea. It creates a more consistent spacing at the price of less consistent glyphs. Whether one likes this compromise, is a matter of taste. I personally lean towards consistent glyphs, but I did not try it for an extended period.

[–] BatmanAoD@programming.dev 3 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I'm not sure I'd consider that "failing". At first glance, I don't mind the distinct "m" glyphs being juxtaposed. But perhaps I'd find it annoying after a while.

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[–] jadero@programming.dev 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I've long preferred proportional fonts and positional tab stops like what you find in a WYSIWYG word processor. Got a tab position wrong? Drag it as appropriate or, if necessary, add a new one. In fact, during a period where I was doing far more writing than programming, in the days before code completion, I preferred my WYSIWYG word processor to my code editor. I had appropriate scripts and macros for cleaning up imported text files and to always save both native format and a text file with spaces in place of tabs. I also had different templates for different languages so that I could have custom processing for different languages. (It helps that a big part of that job was teaching people how to use word processors as far more than just electronic typewriters.)

Now, of course, the programmer's editor is an advanced tool tailored to the job, making it lunacy to even consider a word processor as code editor. Which doesn't mean that there aren't word processing concepts that might be valuable.

Nick Gravgaard has some good writing on the subject and links to a variety of resources, including to at least one proportional font designed for programming.

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[–] cashew@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Neon is the only one that I think is passable. The rest are a bit too stylized for code. The texture healing is a great idea though, I would love for that to be common.

Edit: Actually I've changed my mind. Texture healing would introduce too much variation in similar texts. If spacing is a problem then maybe the font is simply no good.

[–] ultratiem@lemmy.ca 4 points 10 months ago

Yeah texture healing is poorly thought out and will break way more things than it "fixes". If your font needs that, go in and fix the damn font. A solution to a problem no one asked for, thanks Microsoft!

[–] Pyroglyph@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Neon and Argon: Seem okay. They're really quite similar though. It's like the designers couldn't decide which they liked more and so just decided to release both.

Xenon: It feels alright. The horizontal serifs give everything a more uniform look, but you can also get that with any other serif font.

Radon: Uh, no thanks. It's like someone took the weird letters from Dank Mono and said "what if we did that but for the whole font?"

Krypton: What if we just took OCR A and added ligatures? Alternatively, "Floating Point Precision Error: The Font"

Overall, none of these are compelling enough to make me want to try them. I quite like the Texture Healing feature, but it's not enough to make me want to move to it.

Also, using multiple different fonts in one code file sounds horrendous.

[–] suy@programming.dev 11 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Radon, the "handwriting" one, seems like if someone wanted to have Comic Sans but for code.

[–] cashew@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

Comic Code is a thing and it's 10/10. It's proof that handwriting style fonts for code is possible.

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[–] yoevli@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago

I don't think I've ever felt the urge to apply an alignment chart to monospace fonts of all things, but Xenon and Radon are basically lawful and chaotic evil respectively.

[–] brunofin@lemm.ee 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The fonts are nice but I absolutely hate the "copilot voice" text moving around idea, it's absolutely terrible to read.

[–] JakenVeina@lemm.ee 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I don't think the intention is that Copilot voice would be animated, I think they just had a dumb idea to highlight it that way in the demo. Look closely, and you'll see the Copilot voice is the only text there written in the "Krypton" font. The animation indeed looks godawful.

[–] brunofin@lemm.ee 3 points 10 months ago

I hope you're right

[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Damn, these are pretty good.

I've been using Iosevka for quite a while now which is very tall and thin by comparison to most fonts. These are wider, but that makes them more favorably compare to Consolas, still overall my favorite font for the console (Cascadia Code looks weird with Antialiasing IMO).

Going to give Xenon in particular a week to try it out. Love a programming font with serifs.

[–] kogasa@programming.dev 3 points 10 months ago

There's Iosevka Extended

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Ooo... I like the purple one (Krypton). Very space-aged.

[–] simonced@lemmy.one 6 points 10 months ago

Looks nice, I'll try it today and see how it goes. At least MS doing something good for a change...unless they added spyware to a font!? LOL

[–] GarytheSnail@programming.dev 5 points 10 months ago

I'm still loving comic code.

[–] choroalp@programming.dev 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I cant believe they gave the cool name of Radon to the shittiest font of the group

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