It really doesn't make sense to talk about averages for something like this in a country as large and diverse as[US is. Median home price in Hawaii is $973k. In West Virginia it's $158k. The average isn't relevant to most people, just the tiny fraction who live in a place where it's about in the middle. Also worth noting that average salaries vary pretty widely, too.
this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2023
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It does make sense because the average house price has gone up for everyone.
The article is about median prices.
Yep, got that. I'm saying the standard deviation is so high that there's not a lot of use in discussing median prices across the country.
I'm thinking about the argument that people should just move to a cheaper area if they can't afford the city. Doesn't this graph suggest that even if everyone could move anywhere without reducing their salary most working people would still not be able to afford a home?
It might be true, but you can't say that from that graph, which is part of my point. Median income and median home prices for such a gigantic and diverse area make it hard to know what the situation is in a specific area of a specific state. I mean, just in my state (California) there are areas where every home is multi-million dollar, and areas where they're reasonably cheap.
Its also very expensive to be homeless. There is no legal place to loiter or park your car. Even teh public spaces are strictly enforced with no loitering. Where I live anyways, public space is highly protected. If you dont have a private space you can do go, you are forced to constantly be nomadic going from one place to the next until you tire and cannot run away from the enforcement authorities and are jailed. When you exit jail, there is a halfway house or something you are allowed to go in, but thats only temporary and only if you have addiction problems.
Housing is just a pump that transfers money from the bottom to the top. THE COST OF HOUSING USED TO BE 3 ANNUAL SALARIES. We could also turn air into a similar pump but air is more difficult to fence off...
When my wife and I started looking at buying a house, there were new houses in a brand new development going for absolutely screaming deals. Houses twice the size of similarly priced houses. They were bland, soulless husks, each one bordering on ugly. You could even just buy the land and build your own home, ordered from a catalog. No estimate on time, of course.
And nestled in to the fine print at every single one, an HOA. The worst being 400+ dollars a month.
New housing isn't being built, at least not for most Americans. We're above average earners in a low cost of living area. What we can afford is not typical, and these crappy catalog mcmansions were just at the top of our price range, before the HOA.
The only solution I see to the housing problem, is mandating that middle-low income housing be built. Right now there's no incentive to. The money is in keeping it scarce, or milking a covenant.
Sorry, but for the non-americans, what is HOA?
Home owner's association. Neighborhoods have common needs such as landscaping and other infrastructure that doesn't fall in someone's property. In theory these make sense, you have a group of people who set guidelines to keep the neighborhood nice. However, what often ends up happening is the group pushes their own agendas and it is no longer for the common good.
To elaborate for the curious, basically a community sets up a committee that will handle these things. You would normally pay HOA fees to cover things like paying for the streetlights in a private community, the pool or fitness center, or whatever a long those lines. Basically for a private community it's a way to say "Hey, we need some things done to keep things nice, everyone pay in so the flowers look good this year". Normally, not a bad idea. There are usually two things that go wrong though. One, the money is mismanaged and/or people are heavily overcharged and the extra money disappears. The other is that HOAs also have rules for the community to keep things orderly on their own property. No cars in your yard, no blaring music after 9pm, etc. But you hear about a lot of cases where this stuff gets out of hand and suddenly people are getting fined for having trash cans out too long or the wrong colored curtains.
Because of this, people have justifiably built up a lot of hate for HOAs. Imagine buying a house, your own property, then paying +$100 a month to keep the neighborhood nice, then some picky Karen comes by to tell you that you can't hang up your sports team flag and if you don't take it down they'll fine you $50 a day.
It's worse than the just Karens. If you don't pay the fines they will put a lien on your property and eventually evict you. This has created a strong market pressure towards swindling people out of their places. Financial groups that manage HOAs wholesale are now the norm and they love encouraging Karens to generate nonsense rules and report offenders... They get a cut of either the fine or the home sale sand get to play the role faceless enforcer. There are no regulations on how high fines can go, nor how high LATE FEES on those fines can go, nor how soon "late" is.
We are way past the time when HOAs were harmless funny people hyperfocusing on lawns... It's a predatory business now.
My wife was telling me a story about her friends friend, who lives in an HOA neighborhood and had a big tree that was rotting in their yard and was causing concern about it falling over. Apparently they went to the hoa for approval to cut it down and they said no for one reason or another, then started fining them for it. Then a while after they collected a good deal of money off the fines said they could cut it down but they had to use a specific company who happened to be owned by a relative of the head of the hoa and charged them a lot more than they should have.
This story was passed down the lane and I don't even know the couple, but it doesn't sound far fetched.
Additionally, they set rules about really nitpicky things like house paint color, mail box standardization, how often you mow and water your lawn, what kind of holiday decorations you can have and when they can be up, whether you store your trash cans in a way that is visible from the street when it's not collection day, guests parking on the street too often, that kind of thing. They can fine or even kick you out of your house for violations.
What is a group of Karens called?
A homeowners association.
Home Owners Association
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We got our house before all of this bullshit back in 2014 before all of this bullshit happened, so we have a decent mortgage, but we really want to move to another town and we'll never be able to afford it until my rich mother dies and I inherit her money and sell her house. Which sucks, because one of the reasons to move is because she lives there.
Have you talked to her about this? She may want to give you your inheritance early if she knows it's so that you can move closer to her.
She knows we want to move there, but we don't really talk about money in my family. I have no idea how much she's worth. But she lives in a huge house, so if she's broke, we can sell the house and get a smaller one.
I can recall a time when people said home prices will never crash, right before they crashed.
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