this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2023
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[–] Skua@kbin.social 74 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I recently bought the 2021 remaster of a strategy game from 2004 and it was almost 50 GB. Add another 12 GB if for some reason you want the 4k textures on models from 2004. This game used to come on a CD.

[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 58 points 1 year ago (6 children)

4k and 8k textures are huge. Upscaling the textures takes a lot of extra space surprisingly. That's usually the single biggest thing bloating a games size.

[–] PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The crazy thing is that a lot of today’s models are actually much more simple than they used to be. Look at comparisons for old games like Mario Galaxy versus Mario Odyssey for good examples. But this is done because it allows for more detailed environments; The lack of polygons means that (as long as the textures can be loaded fast enough) your rendering goes much faster. You’re not being bottlenecked by polygon counts anymore, because there are fewer polygons.

But this has caused texture sizes to balloon, because now you’re shifting nearly all the heavy lifting over to those textures instead of the polygons.

[–] PoetSII@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

For more graphically intensive games actually, this is shifting back bc polys are a lot cheaper than texel density these days. Games like Star Citizen, Alien Isolation, Cyberpunk and Starfield (or other hardsurface elements in games like firearms or vehicles) with insanely intricate hardsurface elements that the player needs to be able to be up close all around and inside can't use baked normals due to the fact it'd just be impossible to get a decent texel density and bake, so now games are shifting to something called 'face weighted normals' which basically means that all the big bevels and chamfers are actually part of the model's geo instead of being baked down. Smaller stuff like greebling will be a flat plane shrink wrapped to the curvature of a surface with baked detail as a displacement or normal map.

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[–] Skua@kbin.social 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To be clear, the 4k textures are an optional free extra download that bumps the install size up significantly above the ~50GB. The 1024x1024 textures that come with it as standard will still have taken up a good chunk extra over 2004's version though, of course

I've dug around in the files a little bit for modding purposes and as far as I can tell, one of the biggest reasons for bloat is the way that they implemented an ethnicity system in the remaster. In the original, units just had a skin colour that was roughly appropriate for the historical home region of the faction they're from. In the remaster, they added a system that gives the units some variety in appearance that takes in to account where the unit was recruited; if you recruit soldiers in England, they'll be paler on average than the ones recruited in Algeria. However, it seems like the way this was implemented was to give every single unit a unique texture for every ethnicity. There's no common set of, say, five-ten faces for southern European men, for example. Every single unit has one southern European face, one northern European face, one north African face etc etc. Same goes for the visible skin on the rest of the body. Multiply that across about a thousand different units and suddenly you've got an utterly absurd number of nearly identical textures. And since this a strategy game, players are basically never looking at any of them at a level of zoom that affords each unit more than a few dozen pixels.

[–] iforgotmyinstance@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The secret? SSDs.

There's no need to be smart or clever about compression or implementation, since all files can be called immediately from the hard drive.

No need to create iterative processes now since you can just brute force the entire production. It is technologically superior, it creates superior performance, yet has the drawback of huge file sizes.

[–] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Speed is not the appropriate answer to bloat.

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[–] vivadanang@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

I think people also have an odd idea of what it takes to photorealistically depict a fucking stadium full of people and players with realtime reflections and sweating normal maps. The texture info alone is gonna be huge, but likewise there are tons of high res models animating in realtime all over the screen. So yeah, this being a gigantic install makes sense if 4k res gaming is what people want to play.

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[–] Ryantific_theory@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

Yeah, I feel like the improvements in gaming hardware have gone 50% to improving dynamic systems and graphics, and 50% to messy project bloat. Not to mention the constant crunch culture means they never have time to clean things up before launch, and after launch is for game breaking bugs and DLC.

[–] sturmblast@lemmy.world 57 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I mean I can understand how textures add up but 161 gigs for a basketball game seems like a lot of unoptimized stuff going on

[–] Silinde@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The majority of the space on modern games is taken up by high definition audio. Those thousands of commentator lines add up to dozens of gigs alone.

[–] llama@midwest.social 14 points 1 year ago

So they're likely not optimizing by not using Opus.

[–] luke@discuss.tchncs.de 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Idk if NBA games have a lot of cut scenes but those are sometimes the culprit; Separate rendered videos in every language that the game supports.

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[–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do they not even use compression anymore? I've been wondering since Steam came out if I was downloading compressed game files or wasting bandwidth every time. They used to try to conserve storage, compressing everything to fit on one or two discs (or floppy disks before that)

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

If you watch the download graph, the blue bars is what you're downloading, and is always significantly smaller than the green line which is what is being saved to disk.

"Japanese game dev has been here"

"How can you tell?"

"30fps cap"

"Is Bethesda a Japanese word?"

[–] Transcriptionist@lemmy.world 34 points 1 year ago

Image Transcription:

A version of the White Man Has Been Here meme showing a Robert Griffing painting of two Native American trackers examining footprints in the snow. One is standing and the other squatting, both are holding rifles. The squatting tracker is saying "western game dev has been here."

His standing companion asks "How can you tell?"

The first tracker replies, "161 GB for a basketball game".

The footprints in the snow have been replaced by a screen shot of an X/Twitter notification by Saved You A Click Video Games replying to a post by GameSpot reading "NBA 2K24 File Size Revealed, And It's Even Bigger Than Starfield - Report dlvr.it/Svvggh2" accompanied by an image of a basketball player for the Lakers team. The Saved You A Click Video Games' response reads "It's 161GB on Xbox Series X|S."

[I am a human, if I’ve made a mistake please let me know. Please consider providing alt-text for ease of use. Thank you. 💜 We have a community! If you wish for us to transcribe something, want to help improve ease of use here on Lemmy, or just want to hang out with us, join us at !lemmy_scribes@lemmy.world!]

[–] PP_BOY_@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I remember being floor to see that GTA V on my PS3 was a 8gb disc. Zero optimization for consoles these days.

[–] Dozzi92@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (7 children)

When Baldur's Gate 2 came out it was on 6 CDs, like 4GB. Game was massive.

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[–] DTFpanda@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

It's because they just Ctrl+X last year's game directory but didn't put it back in a .ZIP file.

[–] PeterPoopshit@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I remember when even having a 160gb hard drive was unthinkable.

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[–] dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

Americans like BIG

[–] OpenPassageways@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I'd prefer they spend time optimizing CPU, GPU, RAM usage instead of storage size.

[–] Knusper@feddit.de 14 points 1 year ago

These are rarely mutually exclusive. Rather the opposite, as these textures and whatnot need to be pumped through RAM and VRAM via the CPU.

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[–] Mio@feddit.nu 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Diablo 2 lod installed: 3 gb Diablo 2 resuracted 25 gb

Is 4k images consuming that much more space?

[–] EddoWagt@feddit.nl 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

No, but raw audio and high res 3d models are

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