I’ve always thought of it was you get more conservative as you get wealthier, rather then older. The system as it is now makes it far harder to get wealthy, hence people are staying liberal as they get older.
this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2023
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I think it's also true for those people who lose the ability to learn and understand new things as they age (which happens a lot but not to everyone). In the everchanging world those people find themselves longing for stability and the good old times that they understand. Change becomes confusing and scary.
Also: Some people keep their positions that used to be progressive and find themselves on the conservative side much later. Example: If you are ok mixed race marriage, that used to be a progressive talking point and now is common sense. Gay marriages weren't discussed in the slightest back than. If you don't move, you find yourself on the edge of the Overton window one day.
It's really that the world becomes more liberal as it goes on. If you don't change with it, you're comparatively more conservative. It's never been the case that people, in general, become more conservative as they age, just that they want things how they expected them before, which at some point is reached and surpassed.
It’s really that the world becomes more liberal as it goes on.
I don't even think it has. It feels like we're in the same conflicts that have existed since at least the 60s era of the Civil Rights Movement.
Government spying, endless warmongering, exclusionary public policy that fixates on bigoted stereotypes, hostility towards immigrants fleeing the warmongering, looming ecological disaster...
Maybe we're more fixated on trans kids than gay kids, or Latino immigrants rather than Asian immigrants, or AIs that filter out resumes by black surnames rather then racist senior managers, or climate change rather than leaded gasoline and sulfur rain, but the fundamental problems are all still there.
How do you get more conservative in the face of that? Idk. Feels more like we're just trapped in a news cycle that fluctuates between "left is winning!" and "right is winning!" headlines.
I have a paid off house, plenty in the bank, and investments. I'm less convinced by communism than I was as a kid, but I support the progressive agenda, vote green and annoy city planners asking about pedestrian and bike infrastructure in new developments
I don't think I could be accused of conservatism, though I seem to have done capitalism reasonably
Actually maybe I am a conservative - I do want to conserve this biosphere, rather than destroying it through the radical increase in carbon burn in the last few hundred years
Actually maybe I am a conservative - I do want to conserve this biosphere, rather than destroying it through the radical increase in carbon burn in the last few hundred years
That's conservationism, not conservatism. Conservatism is about establishing and enforcing hierarchies of social power.
It was a joke :). I was playing on the dictionary definition of (little C) conservatives, in contrast to (big C) Conservatives
Modern Conservatives area actually radicals, and they unfairly leave actual conservatives (who want stability or careful change) with no representation
Then those actual conservatives need to do the hard work and actually rein in their wacko cousins.
I've just seen it as people get set in their ways. You were progressive in your youth, got what you wanted, and have grown comfortable with it. Now, you're old and the new generation wants to change things you are comfortable with, and you don't want it to change.
You're gonna have to let me own shit I wanna conserve first, bitches.
You mean you don't want to conserve *gestures wildly at whatever's happening to the US*?
My parents told me that when I was in college but the absolute opposite has happened. I think it is true for a lot of folks.
The reason older generations tell us that you get conservative when you get older is because that's what truly did happen for them. It's their genuine life experience.
They started off as young liberal hippies with only weed money to their name, and then as they got older and settled down they became wealthier, and surprise surprise, when you have wealth then you start acting and voting in ways which help you keep that wealth for yourself.
It isn't happening with younger generations in part because we're inherently more liberal but also in part because that wealththe older generations saw never appears.
I mean a system in which you grow rich as you grow older, no matter what (exceptions aside) would do that, and if that's the expectation you'll grow more conservative thinking children don't understand that everyone gets to have a good life "except the bad people" (in this case it can be both a genuine belief or a dog whistle) but if you contrast it to the world we have seen where wealth is hoarded by a select few and at an unprecedented scale you can grow jaded even if you do make wealth somehow unless you buy into the current right wing propaganda.
It's only true for greedy idiots who think their 401k growing is the only way they'll be a millionaire, so they misguidedly enable wallstreet and big business, tax breaks, etc.
Bad people grow more conservative over time.
Normal people either go further left or simply stop progressing, which can appear like growing conservative as the world marches on.
You can't even touch your 401k until a few years before you die, so it would be weird if that was someone's primary concern.
When you desperately want to stop being a "temporarily embarassed millionaire" and become a real millionaire, people will push for what ever they can. A 401k is the only way most people ever see seven figures in an account.
Had a Dittohead math teacher tell me, “I’d learn.”
I had barely begun to understand the importance of the labor movement around the world. Hadn’t yet read Howard Zinn. Thought gay was an insult and that people would reject fascism forever.
I guess I learned.
Dittohead
Well TIL what a Dittohead is hahaha
51yo Gen X here ...
The thing I don't get is that I see the logic to the theory of why someone would become economically conservative as they gain wealth, but it doesn't quite track becoming socially "conservative" as well.
I'm doing well enough, and of a demographic, that I should fit the curve of becoming more conservative. But in addition to more assets as I've grown older, I've gained empathy due to personal and observational experiences in my life. Not surprisingly to me, that's shifted my social politics to the left. Perhaps a little surprisingly, because of my growing sense of empathy, my "keep what I got" emotions are more than counter balanced by my "we need to help others" emotions and so my economic politics are also shifting left.
There is no conservative movement that isn’t tied to social conservatism. There are not enough true fiscal conservatives anymore because that just doesn’t work in today’s world - so they have to pander to maniacs and evil people to get their votes.
You're not alone. I have moved farther left the older I get and the more I learn.
I'm an old guy. I think there are a few things that influenced this. For one, there's a basic kernel of truth in that we tend to be more naive when we're younger because we lack experience. We're unrealistic about what's feasible. Lots of folks also get a bit more jaded as they get older because it's hard to see the same bad shit over and over and react to it the same way the 100th time as you did the first time. Throw in that folks were generally less politically polarized for the older generations. Conservative vs liberal, for average people, tended to be more about how much money we spend on defense and how much on social programs.
So a lot of people moving through that landscape did feel that some of their liberalism came from unrealistic idealism. But things are different now. We're so polarized, and the wedge issues are so fundamental to peoples' lives. I know, I was personally raised in a relatively conservative household, and I've grown more and more into a flaming liberal because I see conservatism as an assault on personal freedoms and on science.
It used to be a conservation over the coffee table about the merits of taxing less and providing less, versus taxing more and providing more. Now it's devolved into identity politics and whatever the latest culture war is with opposite side vehemently against whatever culture war of the day is. Conversations rarely get past that point, and I think this has all been done by design.
Yeah, I honestly think it goes back to when Republicans decided to specifically court evangelical Christians. As part of that, they painted liberals as not just wrong, but evil. You can negotiate and compromise with someone you think is wrong, but not someone you think is evil. That was the beginning of our politics becoming excessively polarized, in my opinion.
Yes, that's true. It was both the biggest blunder and most optimal strategy that they ever played. It worked out "tremendously" to quote a former president's favorite words, in the short term. But now their monster is coming out alive. No one expected them to win seats, it was astroturfing afterall... but now here we are.
Well, it worked tremendously for decades. They got middle America and the south to vote for conservative politicians to stop liberals from murdering babies and implementing communism or socialism. Meanwhile, those politicians voted in tax cuts for the rich and reduced corporate oversight, which was the real goal. Wonder why average worker salaries have gone up around 14% since the late 70s whole CEO salaries have gone up 1200% in the same period? It goes back to this.
Who designed it and why? I don't think there's actually anyone who benefits from this shit.
It's a product of the two party system and FPTP.
Then you have actors like Russia who correctly identify it as a weak spot, and therefore dump as much fuel on the fire as they can.
And profiteers like the church, who keep their cash-cows enraged and engaged by building big blue strawmen.
It's not any kind of coordinated effort, just the end result of lots of different flavors of bullshit thrown in the same pile... but there are definitely people who benefit from it.
And it feels disingenuous to even mention that it can go both ways, but look at things like presidential elections and how many vote not for a candidate based on their merits, but against the other bastard based on how horrible they are.
Christians have been a major driving force for this, namely evangelicals.
A lot of people will say it’s the nature of a 2 party system or some shit, but it’s really the natural conclusion to a society that’s driven by religion.
As far as I know, the modern ideology really started in the 70’s with the Jesus freaks movement, but the general attitude has been around forever (look at the Pentecostals and other big tent denominations as far back as the 1800’s and their constant war on secularism). But this batch of Christians have been systematically working toward taking over positions of power and even trying to out-produce everyone else in order to raise little versions of themselves (look up ‘The Joshua Generation’) with the ultimate purpose of simply outnumbering everyone else. There’s been an intentional and calculated plan that I’ve known of my whole life because we were literally and directly talking about it regularly in church.
Then evangelicalism went mainstream and became the loudest group of religious zealots in the country and everyone just sat back and said next to nothing while they started the satanic panic and the likes of Limbaugh latched on for powers sake and fomented the fear and anger on the right in a way that the left just never even tried to do. And for the last 40 years this cohort has grown and grown until we have what we have now.
The 2 party system isn’t the reason, it’s the tool.
Vote Baba Yaga in 2024!
I've gotten wealthier, older, and far less conservative. The older I get, the more obvious it is that capitalism (as it is implemented now) is destroying the world and deeply immoral in its implementation.
I also become more convinced that most people are morons and shouldn't vote. I probably shouldn't vote either. But, probably doesn't matter since this century is likely going to end in global unrest and world wars. shrug
Oh hard same. I'm an elder millennial who has been extremely lucky in many ways and it just makes me realize how rigged the system is and I want to help the kids burn it down
So happy I just discovered this community lol
I just learned the lore around baba yaga last night and now I see this. So weird how that shit happens.
Im guessing people here in lemmy are 20-35 years old, so I wouldn't consider them old.
I think this image refers to when people are 70+, and younger generations will come up with new trends
I'm 64 and still pretty far left, except I don't get into the whole "woke" thing. The extreme left is a bit wacko but not as wacko as the extreme right.
If you don’t get ‘woke’ I question the sincerity of your entire belief system. ‘Woke’ just means ‘aware of systemic injustices’. If you aren’t aware, how can you be ‘left’ or even liberal?
I'm aware of that, I was referring to how the extreme left tends to overcompensate for social injustices.
except I don’t get into the whole “woke” thing.
It's just liberalism. Mass Media publishers invented a synonym for being liberal and have been using it to define a rift between younger and older liberals, where none exists.
Granted, the actual definition of "woke" is a far cry from what the media, especially you tubers and the Twitter mob make it out to be. People on both sides but especially the right call it the "woke virus", when wokeism is basically just being aware of the societal pressures put on people of different races, genders etc.
Granted, the actual definition of “woke” is a far cry from what the media, especially you tubers and the Twitter mob make it
Well, that's the whole problem with the term. Its pure double-speak.
The same guys bitching and moaning about "Woke Cancel Culture" in 2023 were screaming "Wake Up Sheeple!!!" in 2013. There's a billboard on my way to work sponsored by Houston's Second Baptist Church that reads "Become Awake, Not Woke". Pure gibberish. Its all meaningless pablum.
People on both sides but especially the right call it the “woke virus”, when wokeism is basically just being aware of the societal pressures put on people of different races, genders etc.
More broadly, it means to be aware of any culture war issue. Anti-abortion folks were as happy to co-opt the word in their messaging as talk radio jockeys were to sneer at it when discussing civil rights for minorities and immigrants. Tax protesters have made generous use of the term since at least the Reagan Era. Go back far enough and you'll even see variations of it used in the Red Scare media campaigns of the 60s and 70s.
It goes back to the presumption that agreement equals enlightenment. And the anti-Woke sentiment is functionally just a reworking of the old Know-Nothing politics of prior centuries.
You broadened the term so much you turned it into a huge amorphous blanket that covers generations of invectives. I'll stick with Merriam-Webster, thanks https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke
Others are pointing out that "woke" just means "being liberal", though I do think there is more to it than that. The term "woke" is often used satirically by conservatives to describe decisions made by institutions to incorporate liberal ideals where they feel is unnecessary.
Obligatory "I'm not conservative." Fiscal conservative, social liberal checking in. Not saying that incorporating liberal ideas into decisions is a bad thing or anything, just stating that's often how the term is used.
Not sure why you're being downvoted, honestly.
Who cares about downvotes? That's a Reddit thing. I'm an old white guy but I vote Democrat all the way down ticket every time. I was a big Bernie Sanders supporter. What I do not like is virtue signaling and forcing diversity into various media when it's not necessary. Call that anti-woke if you want.