this post was submitted on 10 Jan 2025

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Ye Power Trippin' Bastards

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This is a community in the spirit of "Am I The Asshole" where people can post their own bans from lemmy or reddit or whatever and get some feedback from others whether the ban was justified or not.

Sometimes one just wants to be able to challenge the arguments some mod made and this could be the place for that.

Rules

Post only about bans or other sanctions from mod(s).
Provide the cause of the sanction (e.g. the text of the comment).
Provide the reason given by the mods for the sanction.
Don't use private communications to prove your point. We can't verify them and they can be faked easily.
Don't deobfuscate mod names from the modlog with admin powers.
Don't harass mods or brigade comms. Don't word your posts in a way that would trigger such harassment and brigades.
Do not downvote posts if you think they deserved it. Use the comment votes (see below) for that.
You can post about power trippin' in any social media, not just lemmy. Feel free to post about reddit or a forum etc.

Expect to receive feedback about your posts, they might even be negative.

Make sure you follow this instance's code of conduct. In other words we won't allow bellyaching about being sanctioned for hate speech or bigotry.

Some acronyms you might see.

PTB - Power-Tripping Bastard: The commenter agrees with you this was a PTB mod.
YDI - You Deserved It: The commenter thinks you deserved that mod action.
BPR - Bait-Provoked Reaction: That mod probably overreacted in charged situation, or due to being baited.
CLM - Clueless mod: The mod probably just doesn't understand how their software works.

Relevant comms

!fediverselore@lemmy.ca

founded 5 months ago

MODERATORS

db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com

Fake vegans (sopuli.xyz)

submitted 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) by rbn@sopuli.xyz to c/yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com

57 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Vegans being banned and comments being deleted from !vegan@lemmy.world for being fake vegans.

From my perspective, the comments were in no way insulting and just part of completely normal interaction. If this decision reflects the general opinion of the mod team, then from my perspective, the biggest vegan community on Lemmy wants to be an elitist cycle of hardcore vegans only, not allowing any slightly different opinion. Which would be very unfortunate.

PS: In contrast to the name of this community, I don't want to insult anyone here being a 'bastard'. I just want to post this somewhere on neutral ground. I would really appreciate an open discussion without bashing anyone.

Linking the affected users and mods: @Cypher@lemmy.world @gaael@lemmy.world @gredo@lemmy.world @iiGxC@slrpnk.net @veganpizza69@lemmy.world @veganpizza69@lemmy.vg @jerkface@lemmy.ca @TheTechnician27@lemmy.world @Sunshine@lemmy.ca @Aqua@lemmy.vg

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[–] gaael@lemmy.world 20 points 2 hours ago (3 children)

Lol found out here that I had been banned from the community. Ty for sharing the information :)

Regarding the matter, I understand their reaction.
I've been interacting with some vegan circles IRL and some are more "hardcore" (not in a negative way) than others. When you consider animal exploitation as mass slavery, mass torture and mass murder, it becomes increasingly difficult to tolerate even light deviations from the all-vegan path.

This being said, I would have preferred they had a better wording for the temp ban reason than "fake vegan" by which I feel insulted and hurt.

[–] quirzle@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 hour ago

(not in a negative way)

Debatable.

One of my best friends is a long-term vegan. He generally avoids telling people because he so strongly hates being lumped in with this crowd of asshats.

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 16 points 2 hours ago

The "all or nothing" crowd really knows how to stomp on progress, huh?

[–] AngryishHumanoid@reddthat.com 10 points 1 hour ago

Not a lot of 100% vegan grocery stores, where do they get their food?

[–] princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 2 hours ago

Definitely PTB.

[–] Nuerion@lemmy.world 35 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

[–] misterdoctor@lemmy.world 5 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Here I am fully ready to deep dive into some drama from a community I have zero investment in and it’s impossible to read 😩

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 3 points 36 minutes ago

Your instance seems to be serving you up a thumbnail of the image instead of the actual image. I recommend temporarily looking at the post from another instance, such as mine.

[–] Sorse@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 1 hour ago

[–] ShareMySims@sh.itjust.works 20 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Lol, I got my vegan card revoked (declared "a carnist") and handed my first fedi ban by the "Real Vegans™" too, for daring to call out their bullshit and ableist militant gatekeeping.

Good luck to them and the toxic cesspit they're so adamant on maintaining, the last thing anyone should be seeking is these people's approval, especially not on being a "good" or "real" vegan, since they make it crystal clear that their top priority is and always will be their own egos. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–] ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com 9 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

This is why plantbased was made recently

[–] ComradeMiao@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 hours ago

Yup!

[–] ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com 3 points 3 hours ago

@ComradeMiao@lemmy.dbzer0.com

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 17 points 4 hours ago

Purity gatekeeping, and purity competitions, are the bane of any movement. Sorry that happened to you. FWIW I thought your comments were reasonable

[–] rustyfish@lemmy.world 19 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

This is super weird to me. Back on the Asian ass porn site known as Reddit I could just go into vegan subs and have casual conversations about recipes and cooking techniques. It didn’t matter that I eat meat.

After the API kerfuffle we all celebrated how friendly the internet can be and now you get preemptively banned because you COULD be a bad actor in disguise.

To a point I understand the frustration vegans have to live with. The constant childish trolling can be exhausting, but this is pretty much the worst way to handle this.

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 12 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Every good cause has fundamentalist dickheads who try to coopt it and make it about them.

[–] can@sh.itjust.works 3 points 38 minutes ago

And realistically they're more likely to end up here

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

Generally very radical vegans also have a right to their own community, however I also think there should be spaces for less radical veganism as well. It seems that currently there's none of those available, or maybe the general hostility of social media against vegans makes any of their more tolerant spaces eventually close ranks to protect their sanity. Unfortunately vegan spaces are constantly brigaded by trolls so it's understandable they have a very short fuse, and a lot of people get caught in the cross-fire.

I think the only solution here would be for a new vegan community with a focus on debate with non-vegans. However it will be tricky to find the right moderators for it who either won't be non-vegans themselves and therefore support a flood of concern-trolls and bad faith arguments, or be vegans that won't get immediately burnt out.

[–] Arcanepotato@vegantheoryclub.org 12 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

So, last time people were mad that vegans were mean to them this community got created:

https://lemmy.world/c/plantbased

Edit: I should finish my coffee before posting, the only post there literally points to this more active com lol: https://lemmy.world/c/plantbased@lemmy.dbzer0.com

See: https://lemmy.world/post/23634881

We all know r/vegan exists and is a cesspit of carnists, but there doesn't seem to be an actual demand for a 'plant based' space. I'm not sure why people would post about something they are kind of meh and not committed to?

If people are interested in just the food, there are communities for that:

I really don't think the rules there are onerous. Just don't talk about abusing animals and don't be a jerk to the other posters and you're good?

[–] ComradeMiao@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 3 hours ago (3 children)

Hey, I didn’t make plantbased to be a less committed version to veganism. I made it because from reddit to lemmy every vegan community I’ve encountered has power tripping toxic mods and I wanted to provide an alternative space.

I’m fully committed to my veganism. But I also wanted people who aren’t to be able to discuss it without being attacked.

After I wrote this I see you’re writing from a vegan instance. I have less experience with there versus vegan communities around here.

[–] clay_pidgin@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 hour ago

I'm not even a vegetarian but I am slowly trending y'all's direction. Finding good recipes or product recommendations is key to getting my family to come along with me.

I appreciate being, if not welcomed, at least quietly tolerated!

[–] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

The hardcore/toxic crowd do nothing except alienate and turn people against the cause and make people think being vegan means being surrounded by assholes.

It’s people like you that welcome everyone into the discussion that inspire more people to try it out; you’re bringing about the real change.

[–] Arcanepotato@vegantheoryclub.org 4 points 3 hours ago

I should clarify: when I refer to people who aren't committed to veganism I am referring to the same people you are referring to when you say "people who aren't", i.e. the non vegans discussing veganism.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 7 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Isn't !vegan@lemmy.world less radical than !vegan@vegantheoryclub.org ?

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Probably? I don't know. It started with the same mod team, didn't it?

[–] hamid@vegantheoryclub.org 11 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

Vegan Theory Club is more radical and different in scope. It is definitely not a place to debate veganism. I let them come to my instance after some nonsense about lemmy.world and we're not federated with lemmy.world. Vegan Theory Club is social media for vegans specifically.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 7 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

It is definitely not a place to debate veganism

What we see in this post seems to be a debate among vegans about what kinds of places are best to support. Surely that should be welcome in a place called "vegan theory"? It's a form of "debating veganism", just not one between vegans and omnivores.

[–] Arcanepotato@vegantheoryclub.org 5 points 4 hours ago

If I understand my history correctly, Vegan Theory Club is a theory club for vegans, not a club for vegan theory specifically.

There is a discord server of the same name which is way more active for the discussion of leftist theory. Members of the instance can make communities - it's just no one has created one specifically to talk about vegan theory.

Hamid was respond to a suggestion for communities for vegans to debate carnists which db0 correctly identified as draining.

I'm not sure what debate between vegans would be. Debating our interpretation of texts? There is a book club community that's perfect for that.

[–] hamid@vegantheoryclub.org 5 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

There is no debating on the side of allowing a restaurant to serve meat on a vegan messaging board. Debating this is missing the point of veganism entirely and my user community understands this and is why they created an account on a small instance like Vegan Theory Club. We are of a similar mind and the club is for people to find people on the same page as them. It works, we have off lemmy resources and an active discord. Veganism isn't a diet, it is a social justice movement to end the human exploitation of Animals, debating that serving meat is ok would get you banned on my instance as well. Personally I would have shut down a vegan restaurant before introducing meat and reopened as something else.

I don't personally eat at non vegan restaurants ever. I almost never go to restaurants at all frankly and prefer potlucks and cooking at our homes when I hang out with my friends. https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-prole-info-abolish-restaurants

[–] rbn@sopuli.xyz 8 points 3 hours ago (4 children)

There is no debating on the side of allowing a restaurant to serve meat on a vegan messaging board.

In an ideal world I'd love to have only vegan restaurants and everyone being vegan globally. As this is not within my power, I am looking for a way that benefits veganism the most.

I think the easier it gets to be vegan, the more people will get on board. If you get vegan options only in specialized places in big cities, that will make it hard for anyone not living close to that or being part of social cycles not 100% vegan.

If a purely vegan restaurant survives economically, I am more than happy. But if they don't, I definitely prefer them to add a few omnivore dishes rather than closing completely and getting replaced by another steakhouse.

I don't think having this opinion makes me any kind of bad vegan or fake vegan but I'm happy to hear your points if you think otherwise.

[–] Arcanepotato@vegantheoryclub.org 5 points 3 hours ago

I think the piece of information that is being missed is that VTC is inherently anti capitalist and therefore the concept of "supporting businesses" so that they can survive doesn't really make sense in that context. (See link Hamid posted)

[–] hamid@vegantheoryclub.org 4 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Veganism is in its core a boycott, so that is the default take. I don't live in a big city so I don't go to restaurants. If you read the link I posted, I think there are a lot of problems with restaurants that go beyond veganism and they are offensive to me as an anarchist. I strongly dislike businesses, business owners and I like to do things for myself. To that end the more I lean on a life of compromise the less I feel is being done. By organizing pot lucks, friends dinners, participating in my local Food Not Bombs and promoting home cooking I am building an alternative to the carnist structures in our world that is more meaningful than making an individual decision to go to a carnist business and give them money that they then invest in more carnist businesses. This is also why I don't really like buying products labeled "vegan" from meat companies or buying impossible burgers from Burger King, we aren't convincing them to switch, we are participating in horizontal segmentation where they carve out two markets from one that don't cannibalize each other. I used to have the meeting notes from an shareholder meeting at Burger King where the CEO explains this but I lost it in my international move a few years ago among all my boxes of computer stuff. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/horizontalmarket.asp

I think adding meat dishes to a vegan restaurant and still calling it vegan is offensive and anti-vegan. If you want to go to restaurants then I guess that is a compromise you have to make for your own reasons but I don't think that it is vegan decision in scope. I don't attack people online or in person for it but I don't think you'd be a good fit for a community of radical vegans and anti capitalists. I probably wouldn't remove your comments from a message board like he lemmy.world one which is basically a vegan news community and appeals to beginners and transitioners but I would remove it from my instance. There is no requirement to go to restaurants in this world and my life got more interesting when I stopped going to places like that.

I think the easier it gets to be vegan, the more people will get on board.

But if they are not participating in the vegan boycott, are they on board? I've been a vegan for a long time and understand people are at different places, that said the biggest problem is recidivism. The longer you go as a vegan making compromises the less likely that you're going to stick with it. For me this meant that at one point I needed to actually change my life and social groups to align with what I believe instead of forcing what I believe into a world that doesn't agree and is hostile. For me this was a good decision, I made new friends, I have new things to do and I'm far more socially active as a mid 40s vegan in my vegan world than most of my old friends and coworkers are.

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Veganism is in its core a boycott

no, it's an ethical philosophy. are kosher Jews boycotting lobster?

[–] hamid@vegantheoryclub.org 3 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

Yes. I was raised haredi and we boycotted all non kosher businesses by not buying from them and building out kosher alternatives. I don't think you know what the word boycott means.

[–] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 1 points 14 minutes ago (1 children)

Isn't that akin to saying 'Muslims boycott pork'. A boycott implies you're doing it temporarily with the purpose of achieving some change in the boycotted party. If something is a core way of life to you, it's no longer a boycott, as there is nothing the boycotted party could do that would change your mind.

[–] hamid@vegantheoryclub.org 1 points 2 minutes ago* (last edited 35 seconds ago)

there is nothing in the definition of boycott to say it is temporary https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/boycott

Verb

boycott (third-person singular simple present boycotts, present participle boycotting, simple past and past participle boycotted) (transitive) To abstain, either as an individual or a group, from using, buying, or dealing with someone or some organization as an expression of protest.

Muslims are absolutely boycotting pork and everything that is haram. If they could they would make the whole world Muslim and prevent pork from being produced. This is a boycott.

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[–] Blaze@feddit.org 23 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (6 children)

Another day, another ~~diet~~ vegan/carnivore drama

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 2 points 32 minutes ago

fyi the normal diet people eat is omnivorous, not carnivorous.

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[–] NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world 9 points 4 hours ago

Vegans biting each other 😉

[–] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 8 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Is Sunshine Beaver's alt? If so then yeah i could understand why this happen.

[–] rbn@sopuli.xyz 12 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

I don't know about this and I also don't know if she is the one who deleted the comments and triggered the bans. In general, I appreciate her content. She is posting lots of interesting articles (not only in the vegan community) and I guess Lemmy needs people like her providing content to debate about.

Just if debate is not desireable, then I don't think it makes sense to post it to a social platform. Social platforms without interaction and different opinions are just dead link lists. Then I can also just set up a RSS reader on the news sites I'd like to follow.

[–] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 8 points 4 hours ago

No dispute here, i'm just saying this sorta remind me of the controversy beaver kick off 4 months ago in the vegan community, behaviour-wise it's very similar.

[–] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win 5 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

then I don’t think it makes sense to post it to a social platform

This is a fundamental problem with much of Lemmy TBH. There is zero room for discussion on any contentious topic. Period. You're either on the side the mods believe in, or are in a race to get moderated. It's a fundamental flaw with the federation concept. Because it is impossible to permanently purge legit trolls any semblance of it gets harshly dealt with because that's the only way to stem the tide of BS. Unfortunately this creates a huge chasm between any 2 viewpoints preventing any legitimate argumentation and fosters echo chambers.

Trump getting voted in is my go to example. Judging by all the posts, comments, and voting patterns it looked like that guy had zero policies anyone would vote for. It was a sure thing Harris was going to win. That whole fiasco proves how out of touch Lemmy is with the real world because it isn't treated as a forum for discussion.

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