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We have a lot of LGBTI people in our climbing group
I have never had an issue with any of them
But the people trying to be hyper masculine? Yep..
I feel like it's because they never left high school. A lot of them are simply trying the same thing that worked when they are a kid. Everyone else grows up
Their systems of power rely on having an "in" group and an "out" group. Overt racism is less acceptable these days because now there are brown Republicans, but transphobia? Very in.
They're just choosing a new group to "other" so that we don't realize they're coming for everyone who doesn't fit into their narrow worldview.
This
I support trans people to do whatever they want to themselves but unfortunately one did shoot up a school https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Nashville_school_shooting
People fear new unknown things (as perceived by the individual), especially when it comes to bodies and human form, instinctively.
It doesn't conform to their strict societal standards as crafted by thousands of years of culture and history. The authorities have always persecuted and cracked down on anything that threatens the patriarchal standard.
Minorities make the easiest targets. Trans people are an extreme minority.
Some people think it has more to do with sexuality and sexual urges, so their perception is that it is perversion.
Conservatives come in two types. The rich ones who want more and more money. And the poor ones who also want more money but are unable to obtain it because the rich hoard money.
The rich conservatives need to stop the poor conservatives from realizing the rich are why the poor can’t get money. So they make up vulnerable groups to blame for the poor’s problem, and the poor are generally too poorly educated to catch on to this game.
Different groups have been the scapegoat. Women, blacks, the italians, the irish, asians, gays, and now it’s transgender people.
The good news is transgender people WILL get full rights in about 20-30 years if you look at historical cycles. The bad news is it will be a fight and many will die before they get treated as human beings by these asshole conservatives.
I think earth’s current environment is going to collapse in 20-30 years.
True egalitarianism
For a simple example: my mother is Catholic and until Trump came along, a lifelong single-issue Republican voter who always said she would be a Democrat if it weren't for abortion. She attends church in an extremely progressive, famously LGBTQ-friendly town.
There's a transwoman who attends her church (let's call her Rita). This lady is probably in her mid-50s to mid-60s and has been a fixture at the church for at least 5 years. My mom has been in choir and bible study groups with her for years now. She still just can't see Rita as a woman. Treats her politely but behind her back refuses to call her "she" and says she's a "man in a dress".
She's really offended that Rita uses the ladies' room. I've asked her why and she can't articulate it, she just feels like it's an invasion of her privacy, because men don't belong in the ladies' room. And when I point out that Rita isn't a man, she just rolls her eyes. I've asked her if she's worried that Rita is in there for predatory purposes and she admits that she doesn't think Rita intends any harm. I've asked her how she'd feel if she were forced to use the men's room and she says "but that's different!"
My mom prides herself in being a moral person, and still can't manage to get past her bigotry to see Rita as a woman. There are just too many mental blockades against it. But since she thinks she's so highly moral, she thinks she must be correct in this situation. It excuses her from finding empathy and bettering her attitude toward trans folks.
My longwinded point is that when people who consider themselves highly moral are bigoted, there's almost zero chance of getting through to them. And I think a lot of the people who are bigoted against trans folks feel that morality is on their side and being trans is morally deviant, so they think they're justified in their prejudice.
They are just propagandized. In general, it's so much like racists - they may know trans people and just think they are the exceptions, like them as individuals and still think they hate them as a group. They are intentionally riled up by being forced fed edge cases and disinformation.
Trans people are just people. They aren't angels who are never criminals and they aren't degenerates who are always criminal, they are a diverse group like all of us are. But you can bet your ass that whenever a trans person does something criminal it will be blown up so big in conservative media and used to paint them all as criminals. It's just the right wing media machine.
How to say it delicately.. Many conservative/religious men really, truly want to just impale their throats on lady dick, but they are indoctrinated from birth to believe that a zombie from space (who they agree watches them shower and have sex) will be mad at them if they do what makes them happy. So to distract themselves from that always burning urge to ravenously aspirate dong nog, they performatively hate things as a hobby to pass the time until they die - profoundly alone and completely unhappy (see Lindsey Graham)
And then the conservative women are taught that they are stupid, useless furniture pieces there to look pretty and parrot - not capable of an opinion outside of the one provided by their husband or father.
Fascists are cowards who attack the most vulnerable people as a standard tactic.
You all are overthinking it way too much.
Most people hate anything that's different or uncommon to themselves and their "world".
Simple as that.
It's heterophobia in the semantic sense of the word "fear of anything that's different".
Far simpler than whateveryone else is saying. The best way to rally humans to your side is to give them a common enemy. So conservative politicians picked enemies that are small in number and told everyone how they are to blame for all that is wrong in the world.
There are a lot of factors at play that make transness an easy target to be the scary other bigots rally around.
The simple truth is that unless you yourself are trans you cannot understand the trans experience. There is no way to explain the scope or impact it has on someone's life. It's automatically alien and provides essentially a permanent out group. Anyone who is uncomfortable with people who are different or that have different experiences than themselves are almost certainly transphobic to some degree. Right now to the best of my knowledge transphobia is the only thing all hate groups share.
Trans people are the current scapegoats because prior to the pandemic we had an explosion of trans people feeling safe enough to come out online (I blame Obama making us all feel safe). They are particularly effective because both white nationalists and evangelicals use queerness as a scapegoat all the time anyway so it was easy for them to rally around. Which is why conservative politicians fearmonger around trans people.
It's not that simple, but it's close enough for a lemmy comment.
I’m a queer gender non conforming lesbian who grew up in the 90s and was horrifically violently assaulted for it on the regular by bullies that school authorities never gave a shit about.
I remember the Obama years. I remember back then not trusting the “acceptance”. I never thought it was genuine and to this day I still don’t. I feel bad for those who thought we made real progress. It was always an illusion.
I was severely bullied for just existing on this planet.
Me too, existing as a queer person. I didn’t even know I was queer, I just knew something about me was different. It wasn’t until my late teens that I figured out what was ‘wrong’ with me that the other kids hated so much.
I’m also ADHD and most likely autistic as well. So there’s that.
As someone who grew up in a conservative household in a deep red state, I think that part of it is that a lot of people are letting Lizard Brain dictate their response to transgender people.
Let me give you a personal example. A while back, I went to a social dance, and there was a trans woman there. Before the dance starts proper, the couple that runs it will teach a dance lesson, and we rotate partners while that's going on. Eventually, I was rotated into being her partner. For some background, she was obviously early on in her transition; she still looked like a dude in a dress, she didn't quite have the appearance down yet. But she gets huge props for not only having the bravery to go out as herself, but doing it in fucking Arkansas.
So I rotate over to her, and it dawns on me that she's trans. In my head, Lizard Brain immediately starts screaming. "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?! THIS PERSON IS OBVIOUSLY A DUDE IN A DRESS, HE MUST BE UP TO SOMETHING IF HE'S DRESSING AS SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HE IS! RABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLE"
Keep in mind, where I grew up, you just didn't see trans people, and even now, it still tickles that primal part of my brain that was trained to be uncomfortable around people who aren't white and straight.
The difference between me and many of the people I grew up around is that I recognize that it's happening and try to tone Lizard Brain out when it starts screaming. A lot of other people listen to it and don't care that the person that it's screaming about is exactly that: a person.
Because hateful people always need an other. an outsider. Someone be fearful of, yet feel smugly superior too
It used to be black people.
then it was the irish and the itallians.
then it was hispanics.
then it was gays
and now its trans people.
I'm a southerner. Take what I'm about to tell you as close to the grain of the problem as possible, because it is.
Here's the thing. 9 times out of 10, a Southern man is going to meet a lone trans or gay person, have a pleasant experience talking to them and go about their day, they even make friends with the person, spend years talking to them, send gifts, become family members, etc.
But you know what?
Behind closed doors, it's "fuck those trannies", "not in my schools", etc. My mom does it, her sister does it, my dad did it. It's hypocrisy at an extreme level while also ignoring it at an extreme level.
"Well I have gay friends... I'm not homowhatzit"
THEY'RE TEACHING WHAT!?
"Double Standard" might as well be the tagline for the entire South. They'll protect their religion and the expectations put on them by their parents and social norms on a general level across the board, while still shaking hands and eating cake with their lgbtq+ buddies.
Just remember any southerner is one thought from God away from stabbing you in the back at all times, because no matter how close you get to them, even as a family member, that book and the expectations behind it means more, was beat into them more, every day since they were born until you met them.
Incorrect. The book itself means very little, just their interpretation.
100%
My mom went to an integrated school in the South, made friends... but sometimes overheard racist slurs and threats behind closed doors. Same story with family I have now, all pleasent in public, friends with some gay family members. But vehemently anti-vaccine and such behind closed doors... I have horrible stories I can't even repeat.
The duality is unreal.
A question is where that behind-doors comes from... a lot is from church. Church like you've never seen if you haven't been to the South.
Because stirring up hate against vulnerable minorities, by positioning them as a threat is a well tested and effective technique for the power hungry to gain and retain power. And it's effective, because it works by pulling people in and making all of the conversation about whether or not it's right to hate on the group they're targeting.
The more I read these comments it sound like the USA is entering its Hitler phase.
In a less direct way one standing theory is that it’s tied to cultural issues with gender relations and due to the lack of a cultural role for us (at least in cultures where that applies or where those roles were damaged during colonialism, which was very common). Then there’s also the oversexualization of trans people.
For the first one Julia Serrano does a good job going into a lot of detail for a big chunk of it, but the quick summary is that there’s two axes of sexism: traditional (one sex and that which is associated is better than the other, traditionally prioritizing the masculine over the feminine) and oppositional (that that which is associated is deeply connected and immutable). All sorts of people run up against oppositional sexism, from cis gay people to dudes who like to sew. But it’s likely necessary to reinforce traditional sexism.
Then there’s the lack of cultural space. It’s being built, but it isn’t done yet and until it’s been uncontroversial for some time it’ll be at risk. It’s the issues of “I don’t know how to treat them” and “it’s against god”. It’s people angry that their understanding of one of the most vital parts of their culture is being called to make space for something that’s new to them
Then there’s the oversexualization. Trans people all throughout the world have a long history of resorting to sex work to survive. That means that to many people our existence is seen as inherently sexual. I grew up where trans people only appeared on tv as tragic sex workers, jokes of erotic disgust, or Springer style freak shows, and the next closest depictions were as murderous erotic crossdressers (which many saw as the same thing). And so now here I am, one of them, demanding you treat me as an educated professional and a peer and a decent chunk of bigots will see my face as inherently pornographic and therefore unfit to display around children. They hear about teenagers wanting to transition and think of it as sexualizing them. And for a certain portion of people they’re mad that a porn category and type of exotic hooker is demanding rights
There’s more, and I didn’t say it all the best I could (typed it out off and on over a while between doing things as well as it being something I mostly break down in discussions with other trans people). But yeah, we’re different and we challenge basic understandings of some of the foundations of society and culture, but our liberation helps break down the issues you’re already facing and a lot of the time the requests we’re making make life easier for cis people once y’all get used to us being around.
They have to have somebody to hate so they don't hate themselves so much.
As others have said, one did shoot up a school (and the MSM hid the manifesto & details forever). As your comment proves, they found out the shooter was trans & they tried to memory-hole that real hard. But that's besides the point; evil & depraved people will be evil & depraved people. Doesn't matter, trans or not.
Main conservative talking points against trans people: They do not produce children, trans people are categorized as having a mental illness that should be treated instead of chopping off body parts, they really don't like when health insurance money and/or tax dollars pay for elective surgery & treatments, fully transitioned people have their genitals mutilated & they'll never experience an orgasm, once they're chopped up a not insignificant number of trans people experience regret (permanent consequences for acting on temporary feelings), and trans people are more likely than the general population to have depression & commit suicide.
With well-intentioned conservatives, it's actually coming from place of care & compassion. They don't want people to hurt themselves, deprive them of families & fullness of sexuality, or see them despair post-op & kill themselves.
Idk why OP feels it neccesary to conflate trans people with school shooters.
Three components im enthusiastic to educate about on that note:
And 2) Shooters have been overwhelmingly men, overwhelmingly white, overwhelmingly boys-and-men. A majority of manifestos have direct mention of Right-wing extremism, oft inspired by the Turner Diaries and the like.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/jp3q4p/comment/gbesw1p/
the short version is that it starts in the home.
Much violent crime can be traced back to cultural factors. Violent crime, such as murder, would probably decrease dramatically in an anarchist society because most of its causes — poverty, televised glorification of violence, prisons and police, warfare, sexism, and the normalization of individualistic and anti-social behaviors — would disappear or decrease.
The differences between two Zapotec communities illustrates that peace is a choice. The Zapotec are a sedentary agrarian indigenous nation living on land that is now claimed by the state of Mexico. One Zapotec community, La Paz, has a yearly homicide rate of 3.4/100,000. A neighboring Zapotec community has the much higher homicide rate of 18.1/100,000. What social attributes go along with the more peaceful way of life? Unlike their more violent neighbors, the La Paz Zapotec do not beat children; accordingly, children see less violence and use less violence in their play. Similarly, wife-beating is rare and not considered acceptable; women are considered equal to men, and enjoy an autonomous economic activity that is important to the life of the community so they are not dependent on men. Regarding child-rearing, the implications of this particular comparison are corroborated by at least one cross-cultural study on socialization, which found that warm, affectionate socialization techniques correlate with low levels of conflict in society.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works
As for the re-emergence of hierarchies, I think that the notion of anarchism is essentially 'checks and balances' turned up to 11. You get to a society that's an ecosystem of fluid social relationships, and an anti-authoritarian culture which makes it impossible in a million ways for anyone to accumulate power. If we could get there, I think it would be more robust than current liberal democracy, where the branches of government can cooperate and you need buy-in from less people to enable power to be accumulated.
IMO, good anarchist praxis is to 1) encourage and popularize anti-authoritarian parenting methods and 2) build strong community groups and mutual aid networks.
I concur with this analysis and conclusion.
Chopped off, mutilated, never enjoy life again.
Lmao tell me you're a bigot who's never met a trans person, without saying so.
Thats not how any of this works.
Surgery is almost always for adults, does not work by "chopping" anything. It is a delicate and complex medical and surgical procedure. (You're fine with the mutilation of intersex infants genitals and the mutilation that is circumcision being forced on infants, tho, I bet, as your Daddy says that's ok, huh?)
Quite the opposite from never enjoying carnal-consensual-interactions again, I and many of my trans cousins are simply listening to our bodies tell us that it needs to change to properly experience it. For most, it takes the form of revulsion-from-the-incongruence of having been born with parts that make them want to dissociate.
This is such victim blaming. It is impossible to go through a world that seems like it wants to drink your blood, just because of your intrinsic traits -- without accruing trauma.
Trauma and being open about it is not "mental illness". In fact, it's the only way to heal from that externally-caused burden.
I guarantee you're not an expert on the well being of the meeting of the mind and the brain, or "mental illness" to take the thinking of ableist, nazi-originated, antiquated past-medical-thought.
And you're certainly no expert on anyone else's body.
So dont be surprised when this kind of thinking turns you into someone that people dont want to be around.
It's a failure of empathy. People hate and/or fear what they don't understand.
They can't empathize with someone not feeling right in their own skin like that, so all their rationalizations for things like "why would they want to use that bathroom" end up stemming from what they have left, which is unsavory intent, making them threatening.
I never heard of one shooting up a school church or whatever.
First off, one must be very careful of generalizing to an entire group from the actions of a small sample [1]. Using the metric of whether there have been trans people who have engaged in mass shootings is quite reductionist, and is a faulty generalization — if I am to interpret what you said to mean that "conservatives" are "against" all trans people because they think that they are all responsible for "shooting up" schools and churches. Second, to address your belief, to my knowledge, there has been at least one instance of a school shooter being trans [2].
References